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Tinto Flavour #15 - 25th of April 2025 - Military Orders

Hello and welcome one more week to Tinto Flavour, the happy Fridays in which we take a look at the content of the super secret Project Caesar!

Today, we will be talking about the Christian Military Orders, and specifically, the Teutonic Order and the Knights Hospitallers! Let’s start without further ado:

The glorious Order of Brothers of the German House of Saint Mary in Jerusalem, also known as the Teutonic Order, faces its destiny on the stormy coasts of the Baltic Sea. Created to protect the Christian pilgrims on their way to the Holy City of Jerusalem, its objective shifted to Christianize the Pagan tribes of Prussia and the Baltic through the creation of a state on those lands.

Under the leadership of our predecessor, Hochmeister Werner von Orseln, the Teutonic Order has expanded its territorial holdings, but this expansion has not come without consequences. The Order's aggressive policies have created powerful enemies, as the Pagan tribes to the East have united and formed the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, then allying with our Catholic southern neighbor and rival, the Kingdom of Poland, which has set aside their Christian duty, joining with the pagans against us.

The time has come for our Order to prove that we are up to the crusading task that we have set for ourselves, and show the world that even surrounded by enemies, our faith stands triumphant.
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The Knights Hospitaller conquered the island of Ródos in the early 14th century, spurred by the fall of Acre in 1291, establishing a stronghold that would allow us to pursue our mission to protect Christian pilgrims. Ródos, a picturesque island in the Aegean Sea, has become a thriving center for our Military Order, marked by fortifications and a bustling economy. However, this prosperity is countered by relentless attacks by neighboring Muslim fleets. But we have demonstrated remarkable resilience, defending Ródos through ferocious battles, showcasing our martial prowess and unwavering dedication.

Nonetheless, the future of our Order looks bleak, as our enemies become more powerful and the disunity among the Catholic countries runs rampant. Recovering the Holy Land seems to be a fading hope with each passing day, but our determination is unbreakable, and we will pursue that objective until our last man falls.
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Country Selection Teutons.png

Country Selection Knights.png

As usual, consider all UI, 2D and 3D art WIP.​

The Teutonic Order starts with an interesting political and diplomatic situation:
Teutonic Order.png

Teutonic Diplomacy.png

The Teutonic Order has several vassals, including the Livonian Order; but also starts at war with Poland and Lithuania - something that is not final, since we’re considering representing this Teutonic-Polish conflicts with a truce, instead, as it was resolved peacefully a few years after the start of our game.​

While the situation of the Knights Hospitaller is also interesting, in a different way:
Knights.png

A Unique Location Minor with unique content spotted!​

All Military Orders share some common flavour, starting with a Major Government Reform:
Military Order.png

That unlocks some unique buildings:
Order Headquarters.png

Order Stronghold.png

Order Commandery.png

The Order Headquarters is a capital-only building (so just one per country). The Order Stronghold is a building that you can build in any location you own. While the Order Commandery is a foreign building, that you can build in the lands of any Catholic country with which you have good relations, making it a powerful tool to support your crusading effort.​

There’s also this Estate Privilege for your Clergy:
Military Orders.png

That unlocks a unique diplomatic action with other Catholic countries, the Sponsorship of Military Order:
Sponsorship Military Order.png

Sponsoring.png

Sponsored.png

As being theocracies, the Military Order also have access to unique Laws & Policies, such as:
Law Divine Cause.png

Law Holy Mission.png

Law Monastic Order.png

Law Celibacy.png

Going to the more unique content for each, the Knights have access to a couple more reforms and privileges:
Reform KNI Crusade Sea.png

Privilege KNI Local Commanders.png

The Teutons start with another unique Estate Privilege, and a Work of Art:
Privilege Kulm Law.png

Chronicon Terra Prussiae.png

And both have their own set of advances:

Teutonic Advances
Advance TEU Crusader Discipline.png

Advance TEU Teutonic Heavy Cavalry.png

Advance TEU Reformed Army.png

Advance TEU Teutonic Religious Authority.png

Advance TEU One Estate, One Religion.png


Advances for the Knights Hospitallers
Advance KNI Assistance Suffering.png

Advance KNI Reconquista.png

Advance KNI Scourge.png

Advance KNI Crusade.png

Advance KNI Order State.png

The Teutonic Order and the Knights also have a few dozen unique events each, but since today’s Tinto Flavour is already long enough, let’s just show one example per each:
Saint George1.png

Saint George2.png


Aftermath Crusade Era.png

And that’s all for today! Next Friday is a bank holiday in Tinto, so no Tinto Flavour; but remember that on Monday we will take a look at the Tinto Maps Feedback for Eastern, Central and Southern Africa, and on Wednesday there will be a Tinto Talks about Protestantism and the War of Religion. Cheers!
 

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ArchangelGabriel said:
It feels strange that the phrase "Army with a State" is used in one of the Hospitallers' advances rather than the Teutons, when that's usually associated with the Kingdom of Prussia.
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Also, is it just me or does the flavor text feel disconnected there, like two different thoughts? And by "they", does it mean the Romans? If so, I'm not sure 1330s Byzantium/ERE could be described as particularly impressive or successful anymore, barring alt-history.
 
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LysanderSage100 said:
Can you re-establish Jerusalem as the Hospitallers?

(Also seeing as the Hospitallers still exist as a technically sovereign military order despite loosing all of their territory it would be fun to have an event for them allowing them to become a building based country if they have no more territory)
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The Teutons also still exist. It would be interesting to have military orders able to transition to building based countries once they lose their territory, as both of these examples did. Both should become building-based vassals of the Papacy.
 
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Álvaro Núñez de Lara said:
How is it not worth it? you can build unlimited amounts of these all over christendom? They are OP as hell
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With a cost of a 100 gold it would take 167 years for them to just pay for themselves. The manpower meanwhile is a tenth than what you get from training field while also costing twice as much. If you have nothing else to build they might be worth it but right now it seems like most other buildings will be a much better investment.
 
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Forgive me in advance Pavía, I am aware that this TT is not a general talk about military Orders but I'd like to ask,
Can a country voluntarily cede ubications to a sponsored (landless) military order? I am thinking of Calatrava or Order of Christ in Africa or in the New World, for example.
 
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_Corsario_ said:
Im glad the naval side of the Hospitallers is represented ! They were literally practicing corsairs against the Ottoman Empire and the Barbary corsairs. Will it be hard to end up playing with the Hospitallers on Malta considering the starting date ?
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If they cease to exist, and Malta is owned by a Catholic country, there will be an event allowing it to be recreated. And if they end up owning Malta by their own means, there will be some flavour events related to that.
 
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with our Catholic southern neighbor and rival, the Kingdom of Poland, which has set aside their Christian duty, joining the pagans against us.
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Stop with this propaganda as Poland wasn't a, de facto, ally of Lithuania for some time in 1337 and in 1339 the only link between two countries will fall with death of Lithuanian consort. Lithuania was christianized by Poland in 1380s.

Teutonic Order raised the city of Gdansk to the ground in 1308 when it massacred its population and illegally took Christian land of Pomorze Gdanskie by conquest.
They vouched to protect the city against Brandenburgia, instead they betrayed.


Teutonic Order is a hypocritical abomination for invading other Christian nations.
Order also lost 3 legal cases with Poland over Pomorze Gdanskie/ Gdansk Pomerelia with papal envoys in court.
Casimir III The Great specially built Krakovian University for this task.


1745588927923.png
 
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Blackcat321 said:
With a cost of a 100 gold it would take 167 years for them to just pay for themselves. The manpower meanwhile is a tenth than what you get from training field while also costing twice as much. If you have nothing else to build they might be worth it but right now it seems like most other buildings will be a much better investment.
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Well in the case of Prussia it might not be worth it. It might be a matter of balance. It might be a matter they want you to focus on developing your lands instead of parasiting others. I would definitely expect them to be way cheaper or way stronger if you are a Holy Order building based country like the military orders of Spain
 
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Witcher587 said:
Stop with this propaganda as Poland wasn't a, de facto, ally of Lithuania for some time in 1337 and in 1339 the only link between two countries will fall with death of Lithuanian consort. Lithuania was christianized by Poland in 1380s.

Teutonic Order raised the city of Gdansk to the ground in 1308 when it massacred its population and illegally took Christian land of Pomorze Gdanskie by conquest.
They vouched to protect the city against Brandenburgia, instead they betrayed.


Teutonic Order is a hypocritical abomination for invading other Christian nations.
Order also lost 3 legal cases with Poland over Pomorze Gdanskie/ Gdansk Pomerelia with papal envoys in court.


View attachment 1285719
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Have you considered that this was written from the Teutons' perspective and propaganda?
 
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High Speed Flying Gladius said:
So... can we make the teutonic order into...say... some kind of crusading horde? Like in the mostly unrelated game Europa Universalis 4 by Paradox Interactive?
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Fun fact, we are the same team and people who created that content. But in this new, unannounced, super-secret game, our focus on its release content is the historical one.
 
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Pavía said:
If they cease to exist, and Malta is owned by a Catholic country, there will be an event allowing it to be recreated. And if they end up owning Malta by their own means, there will be some flavour events related to that.
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Can land owning military orders survive losing all their land by becoming BBCs?

That way, as player can play KH, lose Rhodes and get relocated to Malta.

I mean, the Teutonic Order also survives to this day.
 
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I don't really have a suggestion but the "military orders" estate priviledge tooltip is hard to read. Maybe a different background depending of who the benefit is given to ? I assume the discipline is for you (provided you have the military order major reform), but then is the morale for you, or any country giving you sponsorship ? Or for you only if you give sponsorship ? And I assume army maintenance is also for you if you get sponsored.

Maybe you could have the bullet point
  1. "as long as we have..."
  2. as long as we give / as long as any country gives us they will get
  3. as long as we get

Agree the sponsoring order feels weird in the next tooltip, I'd expect teuton to BE sponsored, not to be the ones sponsoring
 
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Pavía said:
Historical option if you're losing:
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Shouldn’t this cause them to become a polish vassal but remain a Catholic holy order, only secularizing when Martin Luther (or a different reformer during gameplay) convinces the Grandmaster to convert to Lutheranism? Sounds like this would cause the order to secularize unhistorically early, even if the game played out otherwise historically.
 
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