Without 4.0 I doubt we'd have biogenesis. It's pretty clear to me that they came up with the 4.0 district/specialisation/building model because it was messy trying to kludge everything they wanted to do into the existing district/building model.
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Well, if we judge by what they said in the streams, that should not be the case. They said that they started ti work on Biogenesis just after machine age got released, and at some other point started onto the beta. So while it is possible, I am not sure is the case.
In any case, Biogenesis could have been done using the old system, the devs themselves had said that the main reasons for most of 4.0 was performance and other optimizations etc.
However, this is all speculation, ofc. But the idea is that having two independent releases dependant on one another can have problems in software development. And we are seeing it already, the issues of 4.0 are blurring with Biogenesis making the entire release seem worse than otherwise.
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The devs were quite clear (after being questioned) on the changes being for performance and future systems.
We don't have the future systems yet, which makes implementing it when it wasn't ready a pointless and bad idea.
We clearly don't have the performance either (literally the opposite), which makes implementing it ever a pointless and bad idea.
Did they have a build of the game where this produced better performance? Ever? Because it clearly isn't this one, and it wasn't any of the beta versions either.
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Just a quick heads-up: Broken Shackles with any civic that grants a starting building breaks badly.
Like, this level badly:
This one is with environmentalist.
Like, this level badly:
This one is with environmentalist.
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Crazy thing is I doubt anyone would have complained if it was delayed a couple of months.
I'm just playing an empty galaxy test game to see how planets work now. Other than that the game is going to be benched for a while.
People would definitely have complained.
Probably not as many though, and it would have gotten to release to praise later instead of... well, this.
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Updated report after more time spent with 4.0
POPS
JOBS
ZONES / DISTRICTS / BUILDINGS
TRADE
SURFACE UI
MANAGEMENT UI
JOBS UI
BALANCE
POPS
- 100x Pop modifier significantly reduces readability and clarity of the game.
- Leftover pops (below 100) are constantly showing up as unemployed triggering muscle memoru to build something.
- Fractions may be useful for calculations at times but they end up being annoying and confusing.
- I like the idea of multiple Pop Groups growing at the same time.
JOBS
- Civilians feel like a proper replacement of Clerks. They do not compete with normal jobs and are unlimited which is great. If anything, they could get a bit more of support.
- Logistic Drones feel wrong, especially coming from Commercial Nexus zones. They do not even have a building to add them. Trade should be produced by Maintenance Drones instead.
- Researcher split sounds good only on paper. In reality it offers nearly no benefits while wasting 3 pop job slots on the screen instead of one. Research focus can be handled in so many better ways than this (efficiency buildings, policies etc.)
- I do not miss Culture Workers but I do not like Monument giving ethic bonuses to Civilians.
ZONES / DISTRICTS / BUILDINGS
- I like that there is so much more to develop on the planet now.
- Zones are good concept. They make planetary managament more nuanced and give player more options. I like them as concept.
- Some Zone names are silly. Archive sounds like something coming from Fallen Empire. Commercial Nexus for Gestalts is just awkward - is Consciousness playing pretend-the-store with itself?
- What I do not like is that Buildings are still focused on providing pop jobs rather than increasing their efficiency. This breaks the initial concept of Districts providing Jobs based on Zones with modifiers from Buildings.
- I see no benefit or strategic decision to be made while picking between Pop Job building and Pop Job district.
TRADE
- I start to like the new system more and more as I play altough there are still some issues.
- I love planetary deficit upkeep but currently it is not displayed in the UI.
- Planetary Deficits upkeeps should (slowly) scale with Empire Size. Large empires must invest in logistics and commerce.
- I still cannot clearly discern which Trade Value comes from Pop job and which comes from Living Standard.
- As for Gestalt Trade… I hated the idea but it is not bad. Except from Logistic Drones which for some reason are locked behind Commercial Nexus only.
- I have proposal for Gestalts. Rename Trade Value for Gestalts into Logistics (same as Crime-Deviancy). Remove Logistic Drones, add Logistics to Maintenance Drones.
SURFACE UI
- Tab name does not make sense. „Surface” is wrong for Habitats and Subterranians. Consider „Infrastructure”.
- Zones use low quality, pixelated icons which are very ugly.
- UI for swapping Zones is very unintuitive.
- Swapping Districts at first sight looks as if you could replace whole zone.
- Icon for building Districts is very small.
- I really miss ability to easily check Construction queue.
- Items on construction aueue are misaligned. Adding/removing things from it lack the previous feel (probably because of no sound of button).
MANAGEMENT UI
- I have no idea what I can manage here.
- I can see Pop Groups as long as I want to scroll for days. Information visible here is pointless and useless.
- Hiding planetary decisions here is just evil.
JOBS UI
- Initial screen does not show me output of jobs. Having to click for different view just to see that is atrocious.
- Resettlement being hidden here makes not much sense. It would be better in a place where you can manage Pops.
- I still cannot see how much Trade Value is generated by Pop’s living standard and how many by job.
BALANCE
- Corporations are now basically forced to pick Free Traders if they plan to use Branch Offices. Since holdings provide tons of Capital Trader jobs it seems like it is now necessary.
- Purity Ascension provides ridiculous amount of bonuses and resources based on the traits. You need to have positive balance of positive & negative traits which is very easy with so many trait points & adv. traits discount. I just randomly started to generate 2K Trade Value in first 80 years of the game because of it.
- Crowdsourcing & Decentralized R&D provide insane amount of Research quite early in the game. Got it as my 3rd Civic and it just started to churn out 1K research.
- Educators Civic building can be stacked. I believe that Research from Civilians should be civic’s effect rather than Building’s effect.
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Hope any one who would have complained about a delay are enjoying it then
The difference between this and 2.2 is that there are 3 patches planned in the first week. 2.2 dropped and there was Christmas radio silence for a month of disaster.
Now we've got 4.0.2 with 3 and 4 planned by the end of the week. At least they realized there were releasing a problem and set aside rapid response resources to fix it quickly.
Now we've got 4.0.2 with 3 and 4 planned by the end of the week. At least they realized there were releasing a problem and set aside rapid response resources to fix it quickly.
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Probably has been said already but your balance changes for AP needs a 2nd look imo. I’ll start with Interstellar Dominion since it’s regarded as a weak AP unless you’re the conquering type looking to save as much Influence as possible. Even so, the addition of -50% Systems seems out of place and would be better served on IP and at 25% because at 50%, you’ve made it possible to effectively remove the one Empire Size modifier that cannot be further reduced via Planetary Ascension. If your goal was to energize going Wide, we’ll you’ve succeeded. Massively may I add.
One Vision getting nerfed may have been warranted but why the Ascension cost reduction for Wilderness exclusively? Why not add that as a generic buff for all Empires since ascending colonies can be quite costly and arguably would make One Vision stronger in the process since not everyone takes Ascensionist or is President of a Holy Covenant to get the extra cost reduction.
Executive Vigor still sucks, try again. May I suggest +15 Edict Fund per Ruler level, -20% Edict Cost/Upkeep and +1 Council slots(increasing cap from 6 to 7, permitting the use of all three Civic posts. Gestalts get another node to specialize as they see fit).
Shared Destiny is ok but may I suggest decreasing subject integration time as well. Integrating vassals shouldn’t take as long as it does.
Master Builders: Recommend adding Contingency Relic perk of +1 Megastructure limit(as in you can build two Megastructures of the same type).
World Shaper + Detox + Hydrocentric: Consider merging them together. I’d add Ocean Paradise planetary decision to Hydrocentric to give value to Ocean Worlds over Gaia. Right now Gaia > Ocean and it’s not close.
One Vision getting nerfed may have been warranted but why the Ascension cost reduction for Wilderness exclusively? Why not add that as a generic buff for all Empires since ascending colonies can be quite costly and arguably would make One Vision stronger in the process since not everyone takes Ascensionist or is President of a Holy Covenant to get the extra cost reduction.
Executive Vigor still sucks, try again. May I suggest +15 Edict Fund per Ruler level, -20% Edict Cost/Upkeep and +1 Council slots(increasing cap from 6 to 7, permitting the use of all three Civic posts. Gestalts get another node to specialize as they see fit).
Shared Destiny is ok but may I suggest decreasing subject integration time as well. Integrating vassals shouldn’t take as long as it does.
Master Builders: Recommend adding Contingency Relic perk of +1 Megastructure limit(as in you can build two Megastructures of the same type).
World Shaper + Detox + Hydrocentric: Consider merging them together. I’d add Ocean Paradise planetary decision to Hydrocentric to give value to Ocean Worlds over Gaia. Right now Gaia > Ocean and it’s not close.
I'm now actually getting different traits after a reinstall, so there is that. Some of them are still exactly the same (for instance, 3.14 Spark of Genius 1 is 3% research speed, and 4.0 Spark of Genius is 3% research speed), which means it remains an enormous nerf to leaders. Half the picks, double the power with more options per choice would be a good change, but they seem to vary between "better by less than double" (the equivalent power level with half the traits) and "literally unchanged."
A good chunk of them seem to be just the same as their former second-pick level, which mostly wasn't twice as strong so isn't as good as two trait picks. But there are exceptions like Spark of Genius that aren't even that.
So, after the reinstall, they DID do something... but it also is actually an unwarranted nerf. Looking through leaders available to recruit, a HUGE portion of them are just the first-level trait with no changes - visible just opening a game -
1. Spark of Genius
2. Principled
3. Righteous
4. Champion of the People
5. Mining Rush
6. Scrapper
These are all the exact same as the 3.14 trait. They did SOME of them, at least to swap in the second-level trait (again, not necessarily adequate, but it's something), such as Hostility seems to be, as well as Cautious, Aggressive, Adaptable, and Environmental Engineer (again, just out of my starting selection).
They didn't do nothing, but they certainly didn't finish the job.
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I played two games with my Necroid empire. Reanimaters and Heroic Past, Fanatic Authoritarian Xenophobe.
Both games I rushed for Harmony tradition, for the unity node, as I used to. Only THIS time(well, both times I guess) my 10 year elevation ceremony resulted in me unlocking FIVE TRADITION PICKS!
Mildly annoying that the Core District was full of buildings. EXTREMELY annoying that I still don't start with a Research Lab, which pre-4.0 was somewhat fine as Necromancers gave blue and green research. Dread Encampment claims they still do, but Stronghold and the Economy tab reveal that Necromancers replace Soldiers...which was not documented anywhere.
Struggling with figuring out the new resources system. My second game I abandoned around 2300 when I broke 50+ Alloy per month (Although I did have 3 fully upgraded Dyson Swarms cutting into it, so I had a BIT more than that. Still though!) because, while I got Cybrex and a Federation with a MegaCorp...I had 30-40 systems in the small corner of a Starburst with ZERO ASTRAL RIFTS. My resources were yo-yoing even more than usual. Pop numbers are completely unreadable. Planet page needs to be able to scale the window up to show all the blockers and pops and things.
For some reason I could set Refugees to Citizen Species Only, yet couldn't set any outside empire species to allowed!(Although the species I was trying it on was my Clone Army Megacorp neighbor, so that might have been it.)
Anomalies seem rarer now.
Edit: Almost forgot, WHY FOR THE LOVE OF ME CAN WE NOT REARRANGE THE BUILD QUEUE!
Both games I rushed for Harmony tradition, for the unity node, as I used to. Only THIS time(well, both times I guess) my 10 year elevation ceremony resulted in me unlocking FIVE TRADITION PICKS!
Mildly annoying that the Core District was full of buildings. EXTREMELY annoying that I still don't start with a Research Lab, which pre-4.0 was somewhat fine as Necromancers gave blue and green research. Dread Encampment claims they still do, but Stronghold and the Economy tab reveal that Necromancers replace Soldiers...which was not documented anywhere.
Struggling with figuring out the new resources system. My second game I abandoned around 2300 when I broke 50+ Alloy per month (Although I did have 3 fully upgraded Dyson Swarms cutting into it, so I had a BIT more than that. Still though!) because, while I got Cybrex and a Federation with a MegaCorp...I had 30-40 systems in the small corner of a Starburst with ZERO ASTRAL RIFTS. My resources were yo-yoing even more than usual. Pop numbers are completely unreadable. Planet page needs to be able to scale the window up to show all the blockers and pops and things.
For some reason I could set Refugees to Citizen Species Only, yet couldn't set any outside empire species to allowed!(Although the species I was trying it on was my Clone Army Megacorp neighbor, so that might have been it.)
Anomalies seem rarer now.
Edit: Almost forgot, WHY FOR THE LOVE OF ME CAN WE NOT REARRANGE THE BUILD QUEUE!
The archive district specialization on your capital is basically a research lab
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I'm going to boot back up and try a megacorp, but I'm going to hazard a guess the Research Lab building is built in the Core District, so my Necroid empire didn't have room for it...though why I start with so many Necroids, so few slaves, yet start with a Precinct House I have no idea.
Edit: I started with a Research lab in the Archive...why couldn't my Necroids start with the Vault in the Archives!?
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I've spent a couple hours playing around with 4.0 and I just... don't get it. 3.14 was fine. It needed some changes, buffs and nerfs and all that, but the game was in a solid and really good place, I had numerous games I played into the 2500 and 2600s, and that's with beefy mod lists too. Now, the game runs worse and it's much harder to understand at first glance (it really is hard to state how bad the UI changes for planets are), with no real upsides I'm currently seeing?
I'm going to keep trying because I want to get the hang of it, but I will say that I'm not shocked Biogenesis has been review bombed as a result of this patch. It needed another six months in the oven.
I'm going to keep trying because I want to get the hang of it, but I will say that I'm not shocked Biogenesis has been review bombed as a result of this patch. It needed another six months in the oven.
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I don't know about six months, but another 30 days and some serious attention to making the UI comprehensible would have been good. And you'd think Paradox would have learned not to roll out major change patches with DLC because it ALWAYS causes the DLC to get review bombed during the "now we fix it" phase.
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I gave it a shot, hoping it would be better than the beta. It's a bit more polished now, but managing the planet is still tedious and unrewarding. The game had its issues before, but now I look at the planet and honestly can't even tell what I'm supposed to do. Gameplay loop is broken for me and it just stopped being fun. After a long day at work, I want to relax - not play a convoluted workforce simulation.
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Some quick thoughts as I jump in:
- Planetary UI, Management tab: the list of pop groups is still there - I'd like to see something more user friendly by the time the next DLC releases. Good to see a quick number showing how the pops changed over the last month. Would love to see why: pop growth vs migration.
- Planets & Sectors view: trade is placed with the advanced resources like volatile motes and dark matter. I'd like to see that be on the front row between consumer goods and unity. Also, for the tally to include trade expenses from planetary deficits.
- Where do I see how much trade deficit a single planet incurs?
- Policies & Edicts view: the trade policy is Wealth Creation. The tooltip text says "50% of our collected Trade earns us Energy Credits". Yet the top bar's tooltip says I'm gaining trade from the trade policy. In fact, what does the trade policy work on now that trade doesn't need to flow between planets?
- I see a system with no resource deposits despite having many planets. Wasn't it a design goal long ago that every system should have some deposit?
- Planetary UI, Management tab: the list of pop groups is still there - I'd like to see something more user friendly by the time the next DLC releases. Good to see a quick number showing how the pops changed over the last month. Would love to see why: pop growth vs migration.
- Planets & Sectors view: trade is placed with the advanced resources like volatile motes and dark matter. I'd like to see that be on the front row between consumer goods and unity. Also, for the tally to include trade expenses from planetary deficits.
- Where do I see how much trade deficit a single planet incurs?
- Policies & Edicts view: the trade policy is Wealth Creation. The tooltip text says "50% of our collected Trade earns us Energy Credits". Yet the top bar's tooltip says I'm gaining trade from the trade policy. In fact, what does the trade policy work on now that trade doesn't need to flow between planets?
- I see a system with no resource deposits despite having many planets. Wasn't it a design goal long ago that every system should have some deposit?
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Amazing expansion! Would it be possible at some point to rework the government screen of the wilderness to make it a bit more "organic"? Would be amazingly inmersive!
Thank you for all your hard work, keep it up guys.
Thank you for all your hard work, keep it up guys.