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Tinto Flavour #23 - 30th of May 2025

Hello, and welcome one more Friday to Tinto Flavour, the happy days in which we take a look at the flavour content of Europa Universalis V!

Today, a day after an infamous anniversary, we will be taking a look at the Byzantine Empire - or Eastern Roman Empire, as you’re free to pick the custom name you prefer for it, as it’s a game rule that you can set before starting the game:
Game Rule Byzantium.png

Game Rule Eastern Roman Empire.png

Let’s now start with the content itself:

Once a proud Empire that stretched from Egypt and the Levant to Iberia and Italy, Byzantium now faces a decadent period that began almost three centuries ago. During his reign, Emperor Andronikos II Palaiologos saw fit to dissolve several key institutions, such as the Navy, in an attempt to save the dying economy of the country, while the Theme System continued to be a shadow of what it was, as the Empire lost territory across all fronts.

His successor, Emperor Andronikos III Palaiologos, is now faced with the difficult task of safeguarding what remains of our once-glorious Empire. To our east, the Ottomans have started amassing a large army to wipe out our remaining holdings in Anatolia, threatening to set foot across the straits. At the same time, King Stefan Uroš IV Dušan Nemanjić eyes Thessaloníki and Northern Epirus like a vulture. Meanwhile, our treasury runs dry of precious coin, and the country may yet be thrown into a perilous civil war, as the family of our Emperor conspires with the Dynatoí behind closed doors.
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Country Selection.png

Country Tooltip.png

As usual, please consider all UI, 2D and 3D art WIP.

Byzantium1.png

Eastern Roman Empire1.png

As I don’t want to spark yet another Byzantine discussion, and its subsequent civil war, here you have a couple of map screenshots, with a different country name option each!​

Byzantium (which is the name that I will use from now on, as being the most commonly used by the community) starts with a bunch of reforms and privileges:
Estates.png

Most of the Estate Privileges are generic ones, but there’s a unique one for each estate. We will show them in a later section of the TF, as they’re related to the Byzantine Succession Crisis, a disaster that may happen to Byzantium early on.

Regarding the starting reforms, the first is a generic one, while the other two are unique ones:
Reform Autocracy.png

Reform Theme System.png

Building Thema Headquarters.png

Reform Kritai Katholikon.png

Byzantium starts with a ‘State Patriarchy’ policy, as shown last Wednesday:
Policy State Patriarchy.png

And some other unique policies:
Policy Pronoia System.png

Policy Byzantine Law.png

It also has quite a bunch of starting works of art:
Works of Art1.png

Works of Art2.png

The Theodosian Walls are also represented through a unique building:
Building Theodosian Walls.png

Byzantium also has a bunch of advances; we are going to focus on the early-game, historical ones, as they also unlock some Byzantine unique units:
Advance Heart of Orthodoxy.png

Advance Late Cataphracts.png

Unit Byzantine Cataphracts.png

Advance Akritai.png

Unit Akritai.png

Advance Shield of the West.png

Cabinet Action Extensive Conscription.png

Advance Poikilia.png

Advance Expand Varangian Guard.png

Unit Varangians.png

Advance City Taker.png

Unit Modernized Helepolis.png

Let’s now move on to the narrative content for Byzantium. As I mentioned previously, a Succession Crisis is latent in the country, and that would historically lead to the Byzantine Civil War of 1341-1347, which allowed King Stefan Dusan of Serbia to occupy Macedonia and proclaim himself emperor, the Bulgarians to recover some borderlands, and seriously debilitated the country, making it easier for the Ottomans to gain a foothold across the Sea of Marmara, from Gallipoli.

We’re portraying this latent crisis and the general state of decay of the country by some starting privileges, plus some starting inflation, low funds and stability, etc.:
Privilege Corruption Nobility.png

Privilege Corruption Burghers.png

Privilege Corruption Clergy.png

Privilege Corruption Commoners.png

This situation will also spawn in your neighborhood a couple of months after the game starts, although we will talk more in detail about it next Friday:
The Turkish Threat.png

And it’s very likely that this disaster may end up triggering early after the start of the game, if you are not careful enough:
Succession Crisis.png

Succession Crisis2.png

Succession Crisis3.png

It is something we internally call Semi-Generic Disaster. This means that while it uses the texts, panel, etc. of the generic ‘Succession Crisis’ disaster, some countries have unique triggers, events, and content attached to it, so the player can experience similar, but different crisis. The Byzantine Succession Crisis is one of those, therefore.

Independent of whether the player succeeds or not in defeating the Succession Crisis, and not weakening much in the process, Byzantium has a bunch of Dynamic Historical Events:
Event Hesychasm.png


Event Decline Palaiologos Renaissance.png


Event Reforming Kritai Katholikon.png

Reform Reformed Kratoi Katholikon.png


Event Acritic Songs.png


Event Song of Armouris.png


Event Kosntantinos Armenopoulos.png


Event Center of Learning.png


Event Gemistos Plethon.png

Event Gemistos Plethon2.png

Byzantium also has some alt-historical events, one of the few exceptions we make in the game, to include some plausible content in case that Byzantium avoid its decadence…

… However you will have to find it by playing the game when we release it, as that’s all for today! As today is Friday, this will be the schedule for next week:
  • Monday -> Tinto Maps Feedback about the Steppes
  • Tuesday -> Tinto Flavour about the Golden Horde
  • Wednesday -> Tinto Talks about Islam
  • Thursday -> Fourth ‘Behind the Scenes’ video!
  • Friday -> Tinto Flavour about the Ottomans and the Rise of the Turks situation!
And also remember, you can wishlist Europa Universalis V now! Cheers!
 
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Polesie Admiral said:
you're not Rome cuz you dont own Rome and the majority of the population speaks Greek, not Latin, the lower part of this meme is stupid I agree, Pavia should've used around Constantinople
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Even the current suboptimal game rule clearly states it's the "Eastern Roman Empire", so you can stop your trolling now.
 
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matfer13 said:
View attachment 1309514
Can we change some colours here? They all are pretty close, like make Judaism light blue, Miaphysitism bright red and so on
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Gotta agree with that. I'd swap Bogomilism and Judaism so that Orthodox religion and its heresies are close together in terms of color range to indicate they are closely linked. Then Judaism can stay Bogomilism red as it's pretty distinct and then change Miaphysitism to whatever so it doesn't appear similar to Judaism.
 
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1st step reclaim home, cleanse asia of invaders & restore aqueducts from the albano-iberic kaukasuses (armenian?) to epirus!
Next go back home to jerusalem
Take back egypt
Reclaim persia
Return to rightful rule of india

Next? Take libya and africa as per the commanders orders from the cartaginians.. are they still around? A little late, a mere 1800years after the order was given to kratos but what is time?
Then? Dunno. Bring purple jesus to italy maybe.

Oh and make sure those lizard eating sand nomads dont return with their allahu akhbar moongoddess, Greater Bactria should probly also be reclaimed and fixed back to order. The northern pet project will likely need some assistance to make sure they are successful in blocking northern problems.

Then live in peace and quiet. Maybe have some america... and spice islands too while at it.
Repair pergamum, alexandria etc libraries, build more.
 
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nmcj1996 said:
Are there any specific requirements to revoke the Byzantine corruption estate privileges or destroy the Genoa or Venice special buildings in Constantinople or are these just dealt with through normal mechanics?
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There's an event dealing with them, in which you can decide to allow them to stay, or expel them.
 
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We love ourselves a good Κωνσταντίνου και Ελένης reference

Anyway I would like to object with the inclusion of the Thematic System as a starting reform for Byzantium in 1337, by that time it had all but eroded. The Pronoia system had almost completely replaced it- especially after the (final) loss of Asia Minor to the Turks. If there's content for restoring it it should only be an option once the Empire has reconquered sufficient amounts of defensible, hard to govern land.

Speaking of the Pronoia it should provide cheaper cavalry, not infantry- since the terms of the system involved the pronoiar buying and maintaining their horses with the money earned from their grants. Alternatively the system could give you the ability to grant revocable tax cuts or financial stipends to an estate of your choosing in return for various boons

I am beyond happy to see the Kritai Katholikoi represented, though I would also like to suggest content be added about the Zealots of Thessalonica, and more about the writing of the Exavivlos Law by Constantine Armenopoulos, very shortly after the start of the game. The guy in of himself was cool and he deserves the event, though I think the legal system in of itself is also worthy of attention/content, as an advance or something- it did serve as Byzantium's legal code from the 1300s to 1453 and as Greece's legal code from 1821-1946 so I wouldn't call it unworthy of that extra level of detail

An event about the generally widespread literacy of the Empire, the burgeoning Greek identity spearheaded by the Emperors of Nicaea, or even something about attempting to return to the levels of social mobility of Pre-Komnenian times would be cool

I would recommend the Ágios Demétrios Basilica at Thessaloniki, the Akáthistos Hymn, and the Panagía Odegétria Icon at Constantinople be counted as works of Art that Byzantium starts with, especially the latter- it was in essence Byzantium's Oriflamme.

Also, nitpick, but in regards to the localisation of the "Shield of the West" advance, the Byzantines viewed the Catholic west with just about as much- if not more- disdain than they did the Muslim east. If anything that should be named "The Last Bastion of Civilisation" or something of that sort.
 
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matfer13 said:
I hope you make Trebizond a Empire(tier 4), the Byzantines even recognized them as such
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Sorry, but I think you're mistaken.

The Trapezuntite rulers accepted the title of "Despot" soon after the Palaialogos reconquest of Constantinople in 1261. That's a really ambiguous title and it doesn't really fall into to any western feudal hierarchy.

I think they should be a kingdom-rank realm, but that's 100% a gameplay decision.
 
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Let's give some feedback on the Byzantine Empire. First, the emperor looks too weird with that Western crown. I know clothing can be DLC material, but CK3 showed that Byzantine clothing can be very varied... changing the imperial crown wouldn't be a bad idea.

I'm concerned about how fun Byzantium can be. I only see it with flat penalties, when you could incorporate it into regional situations that led to its decline (the Byzantine civil war, where you could include the merchant powers, Bulgaria, and Serbia, for example). Most of these cases would end with an exhausted empire, Macedonia in Serbian hands, and territorial annexation by Bulgaria. Then, BAM, the Ottomans arrive! That would be fun and historical. This should be triggered after the emperor's death... There's a lot of historical information; here's a small summary:

The Byzantine Civil War of 1341–1347​

The Byzantine Civil War of 1341–1347, also known as the Second Palaiologan Civil War, was a conflict triggered after the death of Emperor Andronikos III Palaiologos in June 1341.

Key Figures and Their Roles:​

  • John V Palaiologos (born 1332): Son and heir of Andronikos III, only nine years old at the start of the conflict. His guardianship was the cause of the war.
  • John VI Kantakouzenos: Grand Domestic (commander-in-chief of the army) and chief minister of Andronikos III. He assumed the regency of John V upon the emperor's death but was outlawed, leading him to proclaim himself co-emperor in October 1341. He was the leader of the aristocratic faction.
  • Anna of Savoy: Empress dowager and mother of John V. Along with the Patriarch and Apokaukos, she formed the regency that opposed Kantakouzenos.
  • John XIV Kalekas: Patriarch of Constantinople. He was a key member of the regency that opposed Kantakouzenos and excommunicated him. He proclaimed himself regent.
  • Alexios Apokaukos: Megas Doux (commander-in-chief of the Navy and head of the bureaucracy). He was a "new man" with no noble background who joined the regency and was a shrewd administrator and key strategist in the regency's faction. He was assassinated in June 1345.
  • Stefan Dušan: Serbian ruler. Initially an ally of Kantakouzenos, but later switched sides and allied with the regency in the summer of 1343, taking advantage of the war to significantly expand Serbian territory.
  • Umur Beg: Ruler of the Emirate of Aydın (Turkish). He was a crucial and constant ally of Kantakouzenos, providing him with military and naval support on several key occasions, especially between late 1342 and early 1343, and again in the spring of 1345.
  • Orhan I: Ruler of the Ottoman Emirate. After Umur Beg's withdrawal, Orhan I provided support to Kantakouzenos, maintaining his initiative.
  • Theodore Synadenos: Governor of Thessaloniki. Originally an ally of Kantakouzenos, he switched sides after a popular revolt in the city led by the Zealots.
  • Hrelja: Serbian lord. Initially supported Kantakouzenos, but later joined the regency before his death in late 1342.
  • John Angelos: Relative of Kantakouzenos, he was appointed governor of Thessaly and Epirus, securing these regions for Kantakouzenos.
  • Ivan Alexander: Bulgarian Tsar. He allied with the regency in 1344, although his direct actions against Kantakouzenos were limited, focusing more on territorial annexation.
  • Momchil: Commander of the Merope region. He defected to the regency and was defeated and killed by the forces of Kantakouzenos and Umur Beg in the Battle of Periteorion on July 7, 1345.

Conflict Development and Key Dates:​

The war erupted over the regency of the young John V Palaiologos. Upon Andronikos III's death in June 1341, John Kantakouzenos assumed guardianship and regency. However, in September 1341, a coup d'état led by Alexios Apokaukos and Patriarch John XIV Kalekas, with the support of Empress Anna of Savoy, established a new regency, outlawing Kantakouzenos.

In response, Kantakouzenos's army proclaimed him co-emperor in October 1341, unleashing the civil war. Byzantine society became polarized: the aristocracy supported Kantakouzenos, while the middle and lower classes backed the regency, especially in cities like Adrianople and Thessaloniki, where there were anti-aristocratic revolts.

Initially, the regency had an advantage, especially with the loss of Thessaloniki to the Zealots in March 1342. Kantakouzenos sought the support of Stefan Dušan of Serbia in June 1342, who took advantage of the situation to expand his domains in Macedonia.

Kantakouzenos's situation improved with the help of Umur Beg of Aydın, who relieved Didymoteicho from siege in late 1342 or early 1343. This led to the breakdown of the alliance between Kantakouzenos and Dušan in April 1343, when Kantakouzenos convinced the city of Beroea to surrender to him. Dušan then formally allied with the regency in the summer of 1343.

Despite Dušan's defection and Umur's withdrawal for a time in early 1344, Kantakouzenos maintained the initiative with the support of Orhan I of the Ottomans. The assassination of Alexios Apokaukos in June 1345 was a significant blow to the regency.

Kantakouzenos was formally crowned emperor in Adrianople in 1346 and entered Constantinople on February 3, 1347. It was agreed that he would reign for ten years as principal emperor and regent of John V. However, hostilities resumed later, forcing John VI Kantakouzenos to abdicate and become a monk in 1354.

The game also needs to represent Byzantium's dependence on the merchant republics' trade at this time. This, again, should be through a situation mechanic, not just boring, flat buffs!

I hope the Theodosian Walls hold until around 1453 in most games. The idea is that neighboring factions gradually conquer other regions, and Constantinople and Morea remain until the end.

I don't see any significant advantages to using mercenaries in the early game. I'd love to play with Cretan crossbowmen, some remnants of Almogavars, and Genoese! Similarly, when we play as Byzantium in the early game, since we won't have much of a fleet (which is historical), we should have advantages in hiring ships from the merchant republics! Or at least there should be a mechanic to prioritize leasing their fleets!

Byzantium will be one of my favorite tags. It absolutely needs unique units and alternate history, the reconstruction of the Hippodrome, the recovery of the horses from Venice, Greek fire! Fire in both navies and armies... the possibility of us hiring the Hungarian cannon-maker that the Ottomans used, Greek migration to recently conquered lands in Asia Minor, missions to recover Antioch and Alexandria... possibilities to negotiate with the Pope to call new Crusades if we survive past 1453... but it should be costly, very costly to get past that era.

"I'd also like to see the patriarch; it's very strange that the patriarch doesn't exist...

...as well as rivalry with the Crusader states, which I assume they must hate the Byzantines at this point, that there are still Catalan Almogavars out there wreaking havoc, complex relations with the Turks (possibility of temporary alliances with some smaller Anatolian states for example... and conflicts between Venetians and Genoese in Constantinople!
 
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