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Tinto Talks #66 - 4th of June 2025

Hello, and welcome to another Tinto Talks, the happy Wednesdays where we talk about Europa Universalis V!

Today, we will discuss the mechanics of Islam. In EUV, it is considered a Religious Group, as Christianity or Buddhism:
Islam.png

As usual, please consider all UI, 2D, and 3D art WIP.

As you see, three Religions compose the group: Sunnism, Shiism, and Ibadism:
Sunnism.png

Shiism.png

Ibadism.png

They share similar features, and then inside them is where we make the religious differentiation:
Islam panel.png

The first mechanic is Schools, an old companion from EU4, but that has been reworked in EU5:
Religious School.png

Muslim countries start with a School, which gives some modifiers:
Hanafi.jpg

As you can see, each School has a different view of the other. This is important because you can invite Scholars of Schools that are available for your branch of Islam, and also don’t have a negative opinion of your chosen School.

Because, yes, the old EU4 Scholars are also present in EU5, but they’re now inside a new category, the ‘Religious Figures’, which gives some more flexibility on how to use them:
Religious Figure.jpg

Scholar.png

Scholars are now characters that can travel through the Islamic world and be invited to work for you:
Invite Scholar.png

This unlocks the possibility to change the Main School of your country to that of the Scholar:
Change Main School1.png

Change Main School2.png

Change Main School3.png

In total, we have this number of schools, with some schools being available to more than one religion:
  • 10 Sunni:
    • Ḥanafī
    • Ḥanbalī
    • Mālikī
    • Shāfi'ī
    • Ẓāhirī
    • Ash'arī
    • Māturīdī
    • Aṯarī
    • Mu'tazilī
    • Wahhābī
  • 11 Sufi - Both for Sunni and Shia, except 3:
    • Bektashi
    • Chishtī (only for Sunnism)
    • Ḵalwātī
    • Mevlevi
    • Naqshbandī (only for Sunnism)
    • Qādirī (only for Sunnism)
    • Ṣafavī
    • Shāḏilī
    • Suhrawardī
    • Īsāwī
    • Dīn-i Ilāhī
  • 8 Shia:
    • Ismā'īlī
    • Ja'farī
    • Zaydī
    • Imāmīya
    • Nizārī
    • Musta'lī
    • Alevism
    • 'Alawī
  • 1 Ibadi:
    • Ibadi - only for Ibadi
    • It also has access to all the Sunni and Shia schools, but not the Sufi ones

The main currency for the religion is Piety, again a returning concept from EU4. Piety can go from a value of -100 to +100 (representing Mysticism or Legalism respectively), giving scaling benefits to the country depending on the direction.
Piety.png

Piety will be modified towards one extreme or the other mainly through events, although there are also some ways of adding a passive monthly tendency towards one direction, including privileges and cabinet actions. Another important aspect to mention regarding piety is the fact that to be able to invite a Scholar belonging to any of the Sufi schools, the country must already be leaning towards Mysticism.

There are a couple of actions in which the country can spend its piety to gain some benefits. A country can exchange piety for either stability or manpower, and both actions require being at 50 piety towards either direction, and move the value 40 towards the center.
Manpower Action.png

Stability Action.png

There is also the option to perform a pilgrimage to one of the Holy Sites, as long as they are owned by the country, an ally, or someone with good relations. Performing a pilgrimage will give a small increase in piety, as well as sending the ruler on a holy journey.
Pilgrimage.png

Another important aspect to mention is the fact that Muslim countries have access to some unique laws and policies:
Iqta Law.png

Nikah Policy.png

Shariah Law Policy.png

Implementing the Sharī'ah Law will unlock an extra law, the Sharī'ah Jurisprudence, with policies dependent on the country’s main school.
Shariah Jurisprudence.png

Finally, there are a couple of unique buildings available for Islamic countries:
Madrassa.png

Sufi Loge.png

And that’s all for today! Tomorrow is Thursday, which means that we will publish a new ‘Behind the Scenes’ video, and on Friday, we will take a look at the Ottomans and the Rise of the Turks situation!

And also remember, you can wishlist Europa Universalis V now! Cheers!
 
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I'm curious about how Pilgrimages, if they were deemed a relevant mechanic for Islam, were not also deemed relevant enough to include for Christianity. Are there any particular reasons for this?
 
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Will the islamization of South East Asia be represented? Also, nice icons for the different sects!
Yes, Islam already starts present in some lands in Northern Sumatra, and there's content related to the expansion of Islam throughout Indonesia.
 
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Making schools of jurisprudence and schools of theology both under the same category of 'school' and thus replace one another is illogical, Muslim countries should have the option to pick one school of jurisprudence (Hanafi, Maliki, Zaydi, Jafari, etc) and one school of theology (Athari, Mu'tazili, Maturidi).

The Sufi Tariqas should not be a state level "school" selected like the above, rather they should provide province level modifiers if accepted, and you should be able to accept multiple Sufi schools at once.
Also school of jurisprudences should have default school of theologies. I don't think there are any Hanafi who doesnt follow Maturidi or any Shaafi who doesnt follow Athari Ash'ari
 
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Why Maturudi and Hanafi grouped under same School?

Maturudi is belief school and Hanafi is jurisdiction school, so someone who is Hanafi is usually Maturudi, they complete each other one doesnt choose between Hanafism and Maturudi, one choose between Maturudi and Ashari

Therefore Belief schools and Jurisdiction schools should be seperate

Belief Schools:

Maturudi
Ashari

Jurisdiction Schools:

Rest of them (I guess, or Sufi might be seperate too not sure)
 
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is there no caliphate mechanics for muslim nations? The ottomans rising and then claiming the mantle of the caliphate was kinda important to hom muslim nations started to view them since the title is being the steward of islam. Just like if a caliphte falls apart every muslim nation SHOULD care that it fell
 
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How do you go about forming the Caliphate?
We'd like it to be an IO and then a formable, but it's not yet implemented.
 
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Honestly I'm dissapointed by the copy&pasting from EU4. I was thinking your goal was to make a system for what there was a button in EU4, looking at getting manpower...
 
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Generic bidirectional piety is nice for content design, but it is a bit weird UX wise to be able to spend negative piety, which actually not negative piety but mysticism piety
 
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I honestly expected to be disappointed but I'm quite happy with the depth of both flavour and mechanics for Islam

I expected them to not even treat Islam like major world religion so even if it's a lot of stuff is half-baked and inaccurate I am still satisfied.
 
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Also school of jurisprudences should have default school of theologies. I don't think there are any Hanafi who doesnt follow Maturidi or any Shaafi who doesnt follow Athari
There were historical cases of Hanafi-Atharis, for example the Imam Ibn Abi Al-Izz

Sha'afi's have historically been divided mostly among Ash'ari and Athari, with most being Ash'ari, for example the well known Imam Ghazali

There should be some kind of incentive to match the most commonly associated madhab with aqeedah though, I think it would make sense, (i.e. Hanafi-Maturidi, Shaafi & Maliki/Ash'ari and Hanbali/Athari)
 
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Other than the other, more important points being raised by others, it bothers me a lot that all the denominations are -isms. It's not like Orthodox is called Orthodoxism, is it? Sunni, Shiite and Ibadi all look much more natural than Sunnism, Shiism and Ibadism
 
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There are a couple of actions in which the country can spend its piety to gain some benefits. A country can exchange piety for either stability or manpower, and both actions require being at 50 piety towards either direction, and move the value 40 towards the center.

mana.png
 
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Wouldnt it make a bit more sense tonsolit shia a bit, since tmany of them dont consider each other as part of the same group
 
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