• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Dev Corner | Thermodynamics

If you missed the previous Dev Corner, check it out here!


Briefing: Thermodynamics
Author:
@Zwirbaum


Hello everyone!

It has been eight days since the last dev corner, which means it is time for another one. Last time, I was talking about some of the new naval concepts and changes coming to the Hearts of Iron IV. Today I will be talking about the introduction of Coal and Energy into the game. As a casual reminder keep in mind that everything discussed here is in a relatively early stage, and as such is subject to change.I also want to add that not every dev corner will be a long one, and some may end up on a rather short side. But without further ado, let’s keep this lump of coal rolling.

For the first time since the launch of the game we will be adding a new resource to the game, as every other resource, Steel, Rubber, Tungsten, Chromium, Aluminium and Oil were since day 1 in-game (with Oil getting Facelift in Man the Guns to be used for Fuel production instead of equipment production). This resource is Coal - to put it very briefly it will be serving as a ‘fuel’ in the form of Energy for your industry to keep it running efficiently.

Core Concept
What are some of the goals when it comes to adding Coal & Energy, and what do we want to achieve with it?
  • We want to introduce a potential soft-limit on the current almost limitless industrial expansion.
  • Increase importance on expanding and securing a resource base for your needs.
  • Provide a bit more interesting choices when it comes to economic laws, give some incentive for a player to consider ‘demobilize’ at some point during the gameplay, and that War Economy / Total Mobilization is not always the one and the only one right choice.
  • We are not aiming at creating a super complicated or overly complex system for energy/economy model

What is all the fuse about?

dc_thermodynamics_001.png

Sardinia starts with 2 units of Coal at the beginning of the game. As usual, numbers are subject to change, so please do not despair yet.

Base Concept
So the system works like this: Coal is excavated just like every other resource in-game. Each unit of Coal that you have for your own use (so not traded away) will produce a set amount of Energy, which then in turn is used to power up your industry - your civilian, military factories and naval dockyards, which for the ease I’ll be later calling them in this dev corner as ‘factory’. Each Factory, regardless of the type, has the same base Energy demand, so what you are seeing in the top bar as your industry size should also give you a very rough estimate of the demand.


dc_thermodynamics_002.png

This totally mysterious country, that is totally unrelated to Sardinia from the previous screenshot starts with 56 factories, and now has a mysterious bar under the factory count.

Economy of the Scale
However the base Energy demand is not everything, as each Factory you own will also introduce a little extra scaling cost to the demand per factory, so a small, undeveloped minor country will be able to sustain their few factories with a rather small amount of coal, while historically accurate Luxembourg spanning across Eurasia will require much more energy in order to effectively satisfy the ever hungry maw of their Industry.

Lower Mobilization Law is your friend?
Most, if not all, economic laws will also have factory energy consumption modifiers, which will essentially either increase or decrease how much each factory (including the ‘scaled’ portion from ‘size’ of the industry) will demand energy. Higher mobilization laws will have higher energy demand, to represent longer working hours, more shifts etc.

dc_thermodynamics_003.png

Economy Law picker will also now proudly display the energy consumption modifier at the first glance, so that you do not need to scour through the tooltip to find the modifier. Before you start going crazy with guessing what is the second number, it is just the expected amount of consumer goods - the icon is currently placeholderish, as we haven’t adjusted the previous icon yet.

How does it work though?
I will start with a quick reminder how the Civilian, Naval and Military Industry operate in-game currently. Essentially each of the ‘factories’ have a specific base amount of output valued in points that they contribute daily to. (5, 2.5 and 4.5 respectively). And that was further modified by all the technologies, laws, ideas, ministers, national spirits with various ‘Construction Speed’ or ‘Dockyard/Factory outputs’ modifiers. I am not mentioning Production Efficiency, as that was unique to the Military Factories.

So how will that operate in the brave new world? We will now have a base output for each of the industry types - which means that regardless of the energy, you will always have at least this much output from your factories. And there will be ‘fully powered’ output values for the industry. Depending on the energy ratio you are providing, you will end up somewhere on that scale, e.g. If you have 50% energy - you will be getting output that is ‘50%’ way from the base output to the fully powered up. All the previously mentioned Construction Speed, Dockyard/Factory Output modifiers will also be scaled accordingly to the % of the energy you have.

dc_thermodynamics_004.png

This is the current debug display that allows us to see energy demand & consumption, and how much it impacts the industry. In this case we have 26.7% energy needs satisfied, and it means that each of our CICs provide 4.2 IC daily, MIC provides 3.7 IC daily and NIC provides 2.1 IC daily. Of course as usual, reminder that all values are subject to change.

Wrapping Up
And that is all from this dev corner. While this post is one the shorter side, impact from adding this ‘system’ could of course be quite big - however thanks to covering only this one matter, feedback, opinions, suggestions from you dear readers, should be laser-focused and allow us to get a much clearer picture of what you are thinking. Anyways, that is all from me for this week, and next week Thomas will be back with more things to say about the Factions.

Thanks for reading, and until next time, farewell!

/Zwirbaum
 
  • 86Like
  • 34Love
  • 8
  • 8
  • 6
Reactions:
Reserved for Developer replies~

Zwirbaum replies;

How will the other sources of power represented in the game interact with the system?

That would be the civil nuclear reactor and the dam.

Will there also be techs to improve efficency of use? Does Coal operate like all other resources and is tradeable?
Yes, Coal does operate just like other resources - and is a tradable one. As Coal is 'regular resource' it is subject to Excavation technologies, so you can get more Coal out of Coal.

EDIT FOR THE EDIT GOD:

Civilian Nuclear Reactor and Dams do interact with the system.
Wait... What are those shaking hands?

Those are not shaking hands you were looking for
Is it hard-coding to making energy from coal? Or is it possible to use other resources in mod to create energy?

It is a bit too early to talk about modding, but IIRC you can set in the define which resource is responsible for energy purposes.
Could I mod it so that the same resource produces both fuel & energy? In my Lord of the Rings mod, it would make sense for Food to be used for both military rations & civilian... food.
This is waaaaaay to eaaarly to talk about modding, but I think technically speaking it is possible, though not sure if it wouldn't run into some potential side effects.
With the addition of coal to the game, could we also get an option to run our navy on that instead of oil? Probably best to represent this through new engine modules. Ie, if the ship has a coal boiler, it runs on coal, and with the traditional engine it will run on fuel.

We will probably need stockpiling mechanics for coal as well then, but I think that should be both doable and necessary. That way you also have some flexibility with regards to keeping your industry running when a few convoys get sunk.

No plans for it at the moment.
It's not bad, but it feels like another missed opportunity (after Götterdämmerung) to add Uranium to the game and make Nuclear capability more realistic.
Uranium would be a resource that probably does not matter at all until ~1942/1943, and it's importance only increase (or even skyrocket) after that date, making it a resource that is completely ignored for the first half of the game. I'm not a fan of adding a resource that could matter only in some runs.
Finally! I've been waiting for this for a long time.

The only question is: will the dams now provide energy?

Right now Dams and Civilian Nuclear Reactors provide a reduction in the energy factories from this state are using. (Local Energy Consumption Modifier), so let's say if the modifier would be -25%, then factories located in such state instead of consuming 100 energy would now consume 75 energy. (Random numbers are random)
Sounds awesome I play with a mod that makes civilian factories use existing resources in the game and I like the idea of it preventing gross snowballing. HOWEVER it seems to me you can’t trade coal which is unfortunate. I feel like that’s not the best way to go about it, because certain countries would get unfairly capped IMO. While countries like us USA,sov,ger,eng get stronger long run.

Maybe trade laws by resource? I’ve always wanted that (since 2016). Always felt weird to constrict all my other exports over 1 resource being scare

Coal is a normally tradable resource.
Can you prioritize energy consumption to different factory types or is it always evenly distributed?
ATM equal distribution

I have a feeling that the dev corner about carriers is gonna be called "aerodynamics".
And here I was sitting and thinking that I run out of ideas of how to name future dev corners. Truly from the depths of my heart, thank you! :)

I really like the look of this. A simple, elegant way to add depth to the economic game. As bonus, if you remember to add coal to Nova Scotia I'll finally have a reason to invade my hometown!
1750972060305.png




Wrongwraith replies;
How will the new energy system interact with Dams and Nuclear Reactors? Will they provide X amount of energy?
Currently we are letting Industry in states with Dams or Reactors require less coal.
Not sure this is the best approach honestly. Could you get the player to build coal refineries on a tile with coal/just have the amount of coal be automatically produced, and then have a total energy production from Dams+Reactors+Coal/Coal Plants and then sum up the energy cost and compare them. Also allow the player to prioritise if they should go to civilian/military/naval factories if they dont have enough.

And then optionally have companies that you can assign a state to, to boost a certain resources, like assigning it to Krupp (like in EU4 you can assign a state a holy order) you get a boost to steel production from krupp or oil from siemens or etc.
We will evaluate how it works. There are, as you say, other ways of doing it.
 
  • 8Like
  • 1
  • 1
Reactions:
Now we're talking!!!

I just have some perfect coalmines in Sawahlunto, Pengaron, and Bayah for you devs to add in the East Indies!
 
  • 6Like
  • 1
  • 1
Reactions:
How will the other sources of power represented in the game interact with the system?

That would be the civil nuclear reactor and the dam.

Will there also be techs to improve efficency of use? Does Coal operate like all other resources and is tradeable?
 
  • 35Like
  • 1
Reactions:
It also may be worth rethinking the approach to resource availability through focuses and nation-exclusive decisions.

Currently, lots of new resource fields are hidden behind nation-exclusive options. Which is neat, it gives the nations flavor. But it's also not that logical. Either there are resources, or they aren't, regardless of who currently has their flag raised above that piece of land.

Let's take the Matzen Oil field of Austria for example. Only Austria can develop it via focus. Historically, the Soviets discovered and developed it in 1949. But when you as Soviets take Austria, you can't access it, because it's a focus choice for Austria only. Same for Anschluss, you peacefully integrate Austria, and now you lose access to something that physcially is there?

And I think China has similar problems. There are focuses in the Japanese tree to develop China, but when China takes over? Then nope, all those opportunities are suddenly gone.

Resource fields and extraction should get a unified framework I think. Focuses should help finding and developing those fields at low costs, but ultimately the fields should be accessible to the owner, whoever that might be at any given time.
 
  • 64Like
  • 23
  • 1
Reactions:
And all of a sudden Sardinia is economically super-relevant to Italy...since it was the main coal source for the Italian industry. We have coal and factories consuming it in Ultra so love it we are getting it in vanilla!
 
  • 17Like
Reactions:
Interesting stuff, this will shake up the gameplay for sure!

i know those were just placeholder values for the economic laws, but War economy and total mobilization really shouldn't be consuming that much more power than civilian economy or early mobilization, because it's not just factories that are working longer hours, the resource management like coal mining is also working longer hours.

After all, when your mobilizing the economy for war, you're not just increasing Factory output, but the amount of resources you're producing as well.
 
  • 11Like
  • 6
  • 1
  • 1
Reactions:
How will the other sources of power represented in the game interact with the system?

That would be the civil nuclear reactor and the dam.

Will there also be techs to improve efficency of use? Does Coal operate like all other resources and is tradeable?

Yes, Coal does operate just like other resources - and is a tradable one. As Coal is 'regular resource' it is subject to Excavation technologies, so you can get more Coal out of Coal.

EDIT FOR THE EDIT GOD:

Civilian Nuclear Reactor and Dams do interact with the system.
 
  • 49Like
  • 11Love
  • 2
  • 1
Reactions: