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tombom

CAPTAIN WILDCHILD
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May 3, 2004
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Sorry for getting your hopes up if you expected to see an 1187 bugfix in this thread to start off with. The 1187 scenario is probably the worst out of the three scenarios and as far as I can see, Paradox and its beta testers have done very little on it. In 1.03 they simply Occtianised some rulers and changed a couple of provinces cultures. So how many people want to see an 1187 bugfix? And if it is being worked on, what is the status of that?
 
I have toyed with the idea, but concluded that if I do something, then it will be a borders only bugfix. A full bugfix takes too much time for me to find it worthwhile.

EDIT: Starting a discussion is at least a start.
 
It's good idea, it's fine idea, it's excellent idea :) When you decide to start, I'll try to find some time and "correct" few things in Poland, if any help would be necessary of course.
 
First, make sure that you keeps the mod compatible with the 1066 bugfix. That means the using the same world_names.csv, province_names.csv, province.csv and dynasties.txt.

Second, you asked for bugs. These two annoys me greatly and are quite easy to fix:
- Satakunta should be under Swedish control.
- Desht-i-Kipchak shouldn't belong to Käkisalmi/Kexholm, give it to some Cuman tribe.
 
-Cyprus is currently ruled by placeholder catholic duke. It should be by orthodox Issac Comnenus
-Alot of changes should be make in Poland, do you want rather long posts here?
 
vidin should go to Bulgaria, asen should be the king, as petr was kind a figure head and abdicated in 1190. asen and kalojan must have better military skill (asen was the rebelion's war leader, while kalojan defeated the crusaders near adrianopolis). Bulgaria should get an aliance with the cumans and some claims in byzantium (philipopolis, strymon, ohrid), while the byzantine emperor should get some claims in the north also
 
tombom said:
I don't have time to do these tonight or tomorrow. I'll hopefully get something out Sunday.
wait there's more :p :D :p
succesion law must be semisalic consiguinity (yep i'm very good at spelling :rofl: ) rather than gravelkind.
also as the king title of Bulgaria was neither accepted by the byzantine basileos nor "legalised" by the pope (though the asen and petr called themselves tzars it was kalojan who gained the "rex" title from the pope) i think it might be good, either to exchange the kingdom title for either duchies of dorusturum, vidin and varna or the dukal title of dorusturum (the other two should stay unclaimed). if removing the king title for the moment will prevent the other duchies in the future, then it will be best to leave things as they are!
 
tombom said:
Yep. Gives me something interesting to do.

Ok. I think that Kingdom of Poland should be removed. I know that's a radical change In 1187, she din't have a king for more than hundred years already and conducitive role of senior Prince was a an illusion for about ten years.

Poland should be partioned this way:

DUCHY OF KRAKOW
Kazimierz (ID #21521) the Just (add trait and nickname)
Duke of Krakow and Sandomir
Count of Sacz, Krakowskie, Sandomierskie, Sieradzko-Leczyckie
I think that his stats should be mayby a bit worsers (-1 -1 -1 -1?)
his juvenile second son Konrad the Mazovian (ID #21524) could be his vassal as a
Duke of Mazovia
Count of Plock, Kujawy and Czersk. I said could, because he wasn't until the death of his father. I'm for giving him because otherwise his nickname wouldn't make any sense :eek:o. Anyway, he shouldn't be inbred. Add deceitful instead.
Kazimierz first son Leszek (# 21524, currently missspeled "Lescek") should be nicknamed "the White"
County of Chelminskie should gived back to pagan Prussians
DUCHY OF WIELKOPOLSKA
ruled by Mieszko the Old (#21560)
Duke of Wielkopolska
Count of Kaliskie, Poznanskie, Gnieznienskie
He should have claims on Krakowskie, Sacz and Sieradzko-Leczyckie (as he was rightful Senior Prince of Krakow)
Traits: energetic, selfish, proud, valorous
DUCHY OF SILESIA
ruled by Boleslaw the Tall (#21530)
Duke of Silesia, Count of Upper Silesia and Lubusz
He shouldn't have inbred trait.
From his sons, Henryk the Bearded (#21537) deserve much better stats. Mayby add one or two to main values and two to health (he lived till 1238)
He should also be Knowledged Tactician, Energetic, Honest, Wise.
Boleslaw's daughter: Bertha should be renaimed to Berta, Adelheid to Adelajda, Christina to Krystyna
COUNTY OF OPOLE
ruled by Jaroslaw, son of Boleslaw the Tall (but shouldn't be his vassal)
COUNTY OF LOWER SILESIA (including also Cieszyn)
ruled by Mieszko, brother of Boleslaw the Tall (shouldn't be his vassal and should have a claim on his title)
ALLIANCES:
Kazimierz the Just should be allied to Boleslaw the Tall.
Mieszko the Old should be allied to Mieszko of Lower Silesia and Jaroslaw of Opole)
 
1. About the names of the provinces: in 1177 three sons of Wladyslaw II, duke of Slask (Silesia) and Poland, received sovereign duchies - Glogowskie, Wroclawskie and Raciborskie. So I suggest changing the names of three provinces: Lower Silesia (Dolny Slask) to Glogowskie, Upper Silesia (Gorny Slask) to Wroclawskie and Cieszynskie to Raciborskie. Admittedly Wroclaw is situated in Dolny Slask (so as Glogow) and Gorny Slask is absolutely other region of Poland, but Wroclaw lies more on east than Glogow, but more on northwest than Cieszyn, which after 1177 was merged into duchy of Raciborskie, part of Slask (Silesia). I also suggest changing the german name Danzig to polish Gdansk. But it isn't most important at the moment.
2. Poland absolutely shouldn't be a kingdom, Poland should be a vassal of Germany, although it will causes many problems with all duchies, which should be changed into counties with one liege...
3. Partition of country:
a) Kingdom of Poland => Kazimierz II the Just Piast: Chelminskie (369), Krakowskie (capital, 527), Sandomierskie (531) Sacz (532), Czersk (530); titles: king of Poland, duke of Mazowsze. Vassals:
- county of Kujawy (Kujawskie) => Bolesław: Kujawy (428)
- county of Gdansk (Danzig) => Sambor Subisławowic: Gdansk (368)
- archbishopric (solution likewise in 1066B) of Krakowskie => Gedko Gryfita (date of birth unknown, but ca. 1130 would be alright, I believe): Sieradzko-Leczyckie (528)
- bishopric of Plock => Wit z Chotela (date of birth unknown, but dead in 1206 - I don't believe he lived longer than 60 years): Płock (529)
b) Duchy of Slask (Silesia) => Boleslaw the Tall Piast: Upper Silesia (Wroclawskie, 435)
- county of Glogowskie => Konrad Piast: Lower Silesia (Glogowskie, 434)
- county of Raciborskie (Cieszynskie) => Mieszko the Tandleleg: Cieszynskie (Raciborskie, 526)
c) Duchy of Wielkopolska => Mieszko III the Old Piast: Gnieznienskie (429), Kaliskie (capital, 432)
- county of Poznanskie => Odon: Lubusz (430), Poznań (capital, 431).
4. People
a) Kazimierz II the Just (king of Poland) => daughter Maria dead 1178,
b) Boleslaw the Tall (duke of Slask) => Boleslaw born 1129, don't inbred; wife Vierkuslava => Viacheslava; son Jaroslaw was a bishop of Wroclaw, so give him ecclesiastical education; son Bolesław born 1181; son Jan born 1163; son Henryk I the Bearded born 1167, give him high stats (especially in stewardship and diplomacy - he was one of the greatest dukes of Poland all the time); daughter Adelheid => Adelajda, she was a wife of Depold III margrave of Morava, but this guy don't exist in the game; daughter Bertha => Berta; daughter Olga => delete, never existed
c) Mieszko III the Old (duke of Wielkopolska) => son Odon born 1141; daughter Wierzchoslawa Ludmilla => Wierzchoslawa Ludmila; daughter Judith => Judyta, wife of Bernard count of Anhalt; Mieszko the Young born 1160, dead 1193; son Wladyslaw III the Spindleleg born between 1161 and 1167, so choose the year you want ;); daughter Anastazja born 1164, wife of Boguslaw I duke of Pommerania; daughter Zwinislawa => delete, never existed
d) Sambor Subislawowic (count of Gdansk) => Sambor born 1160; two sons (Sobieslaw II and Swietopelk), but the dates of birth unknown
e) Konrad (count of Glogowskie) => Konrad born 1139
f) Mieszko the Tandleleg (count of Raciborskie) => Mieszko born 1138; son Kazimierz born between 1176 and 1179
g) Odon (count of Poznanskie) => Odon born 1141.
5. Bogislaw => Boguslaw I (count of Slupskie) should be a duke of Szczecin (Stettin) and a vassal of Denmark.
6. Change the law system to ecclesiastical domination (from the convention in Leczyca, 1180, approved by the Pope 28 march 1181).
7. Mieszko III the Old (duke of Wielkopolska) should have a claim on title King of Poland.
8. Archbishopric of Gnieznienskie - there was probably no archbishop between 1180 and 1190 and I coundn't find enywhere, why.

Bibliography :p
"Poczet królów i książąt polskich", Czytelnik, Warszawa 1980
"Królowie i książęta polscy", Atena, Poznań 1997
"Encyklopedia Powszechna PWN" t. I, II, III, IV, V, VI, Warszawa 1995-1996
 
Amper: I'm against changing name of provinces for estetical reason. Konrad of Glogow died in 1181 and Boleslaw the Tall anexed his principality. Lubusz was part of Silesia, not Wielkopolska.
Other than that, very good post, especially with all this dates :)

Tombom: count of Danzig have two fathers :eek: :wacko: :rofl:
 
Province names will be kept the same as the 1066 bugfix.

Envarntroa(sp): I don't understand the vidin part. What do you mean by "Giving them vidin?"

Amper: Poland will be kept a kingdom. It's virtually impossible to amke it a duchy and the last time it was a vassal of Germany was a long time ago (relatively)
 
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Nah, Greater Poland=Wielkopolska and Lesser Poland=Krakow. Use the claimable duchy tags.

For Rus, there is a principality of Cherson which was obviously intended to be Chernigov. Use the PRON (Pronsk) tag for it instead, as we've commandeered it to mean Chernigov. I think PRON already exists in the scenario, so simply merge CHER into PRON and set its capital in the Chernigov province. Remove CHER as a title.

In Byzantium, the province of Nikaea (at least) should be Byzantine. Give it to the Emperor. I don't remember if Trapezous is Turkish, but it should be Byzantine as well.