194) NOT A BUG: Not All Weapon / Armor Upgrades working

[jmschaub]

Not All Weapon / Armor Upgrades working

Here are some examples from comparing starting values to upgrade values

Padded Cloth = 5

Soft Leather = 5 {Should be a +5 upgrade = 10}

Woodman Bow = 2

Short Bow = 6 {Should be a +6 upgrade = 8}

Sling Javelin = 6 w/ Short Bow {Should be +4 to Archer = 10}

So something is wrong. I haven't inspected every option but looks like its (Armor = Upgrade) instead of (Armor = Armor + Upgrade)

 

[Cat Lord]

You didn't do the comparison after a reload while your unit was on the map, did you ?

Cat

 

[jmschaub]

no the comparisons were done over a period of time

 

[kurtbrian]

can others confirm this?

 

[Peter Ebbesen]

can others confirm this?

Yes, base stats weaponry/armoury upgrades hopefully do not stack.

Otherwise, soldiers would benefit from ALL the different types of armour they could possibly use. I.e. a soldier would be considered to be wearing several sorts of leather armour, chain armour, and plate armour at the same time, while possible being armed with an axe, sword, mace, and pike.

As such an armour padded monstrosity would have the movement capabilities and threat range of a lame tortoise, it would be a silly way to program an armour and weaponry subsystem that assigns base combat values.

Rather, a unit should get the best armour value from the known armour types it is elible for and the best weapon value from the known weapons, and I believe that it is how it is working currently, though I have not done extensive testing. (As I have been playing solely under 1.01, my troops have been using Tribal Swords & armour most of the time due to frequent CTDs)

EDIT: Unless I have misunderstood the first posters position, that is, and he was really talking about something else than stacking modifiers

 

[kurtbrian]

as always your sarcasm is a funny...

ok, I'm tempted to log this as a WAD.

 

[jmschaub]

I guess the main problem is the starting values. For example when i get a leather upgrade there is no difference between that and cloth. Also as mentioned Sling Javelins don't have any effect.

 

[jmschaub]

....and the fact that the tech screens say +6 instead of =6 or plain 6 for leather for example.

 

[Peter Ebbesen]

I guess the main problem is the starting values. For example when i get a leather upgrade there is no difference between that and cloth. Also as mentioned Sling Javelins don't have any effect.

You are wrong in both instances as simple experimentation proves without a doubt.

Basic archer armour is padded cloth, which has a value of 2, not 5 as you assert. Thus gaining the basic value 5 for leather I is a great advance.

Basic archer weapon is woodman bow, which has a value of 2. The Sling Javelins have value of 5. Thus gaining crossbows I is a great advance.

Your assertions being disproven by empirical evidence, let us turn to analysis.


An archer with both bows I (shortbow +6) and crossbow I (Sling Javelin +5) will have +6, as that is the best. There is no reason in the world that an archer should do more damage by being equipped with both a shortbow and a crossbow. That does not mean that the Sling Javelin is useless, it just means that the Shortbow is better if you have to choose between the two.

Only being able to use one weapon at a time means that it is best to focus on either bows or crossbow research rather than both as each archer can only wield one bow at a time and he chooses the best one. Bows gain a big bonus vs knights and have better overall scores, while crossbows have a huge bonus vs heavy infantry and a decent bonus vs knights (and, at level V, should you ever reach it, a bonus against knights as good as bows) - it is an interesting tradeoff and your choice should depend on the types of enemies you expect to meet.

All the data you ever need is in /db/combat.txt and /db/advances, and, as far as I can see, it works perfectly.

 

[jmschaub]

This problem appears to be fixed now in 1.02.

 

[unmerged(6777)]

This problem appears to be fixed now in 1.02.

I would assert that it has never been a problem. I did modify some of the values somewhat (mostly shock and morale effects) for 1.01 but I don't recall having made any changes whatsoever to the weapon tech effects since then.

Peter is 100% correct (no surprise there ).