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Barnacle Bill

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I don't know if this has been brought up before - I didn't find anything searching this forum.

I've mostly been playing the grand campaign, and just now took a look at the 1944 scenario. The first thing I noticed was that the US 3rd Infantry Division is missing from the OOB altogether. Considering that it has been continuously in existance from WWI until today (now a mechanized division & just fought in Iraq), and was pretty much in combat continuously from OPeration Torch through Sicily, Italy, Anzio, France, the Battle of the Bulge, etc... seems like it should be in there someplace. Historically, it should be in Italy in July of 1944, and was one of the three US divisions participating in the "Operation Anvil" (or "Dragoon") invasion of Southern France in mid-August. One of the other two Anvil divisions starts the HOI 1944 scenario in California - historically it was probably also in Italy in July '44, as the Anvil forces were supposedly diverted from the Italian campaign (over Churchill's objections) following the capture of Rome - it probably could not have gotten to Southern France by Aug 15 from California.

Looking further, it seems that the scenario's OOB has the US proper full of national guard divisions that I don't think really existed. The US Army only fielded 90 divisions during the war, and I think every existing Nation Guard division was mobilized and included in that total. There were wads of independent battalions of various sorts, but they were regular army & attached at the corps/army/army group level (to be temporarily attached to specific divisions as needed for the operation at hand).

I don't by any means have a complete & correct global OOB for the US army in July 1944, but on short review the one in the game doesn't seem reasonable. It should consist of the 90 or so divisions (less any that had not activated yet by July '44) plus maybe some additional divisions to represent conglomerations of independent battalions, plus maybe some militia divisions back in the states to represent training camps full of partially trained replacements who could have been used in a pinch (not that there was any realistic prospect of anybody invading the continental US, especially that late in the war). HOI divisions representing conglomerations of independent battalions should names like "3rd Army Reserves" or some such, and probably most would have artillery, AT & AA brigades - because tank destroyer, artillery & AA units were heavily represented among the independent battalions.
 
Upvote 0
Barnacle Bill said:
Looking further, it seems that the scenario's OOB has the US proper full of national guard divisions that I don't think really existed. The US Army only fielded 90 divisions during the war, and I think every existing Nation Guard division was mobilized and included in that total. There were wads of independent battalions of various sorts, but they were regular army & attached at the corps/army/army group level (to be temporarily attached to specific divisions as needed for the operation at hand).

we are completely aware of this. the NG divs were added to fit with the AI´s garrison behaviour. would you really want to see that the ai moves the regular combat units out of the combat zone just to garrison a beach in flordia? the scenario is primarily intended as "against all odds" scenario for the axis player. as allied (US) player you simply disbamd this units or cut them out of the inc.
 
Maximilian I said:
for reference: http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/documents/eto-ob/etoob-toc.htm

I know it was in the oob at sometime, but must have been destroyed during one of the revisions by chance, sorry.

I had seen that web site before. It doesn't treat Italy as part of the ETO, though. Basically, the "arrived in the ETO" date for every division is when it landed in France.
 
Maximilian I said:
we are completely aware of this. the NG divs were added to fit with the AI´s garrison behaviour. would you really want to see that the ai moves the regular combat units out of the combat zone just to garrison a beach in flordia? the scenario is primarily intended as "against all odds" scenario for the axis player. as allied (US) player you simply disbamd this units or cut them out of the inc.

Could not the AI be fixed - in the 1944 scenario at least, the US AI should not be worried about defending Daytona Beach against the Volksturm.