64-bit option will be trashed with coming update

[HighLigerBimBam]

The 64-bit option will be trashed with the next update. The reason is simple. There is near to no advantage from 64-bit over 32-bit in Sots2. Most of the remaining issues (especially multiplayer) are directly related to the 64-bit processing. Therefore it will be trashed.

 

[unmerged(403992)]

Small price to pay if it will help smoothen out the gameplay me thinks

 

[hasoos]

When and what?

1. Will that render 64 bit saved games useless?
2. When it this happening so I can plan on whether I should continue my current saved game or not.

 

[HighLigerBimBam]

Dude just uncheck your "prefer 64 bit" in options...

 

[Ulzgoroth]

No advantage to 64 bit? Color me a bit disturbed that vastly increased memory addressing is irrelevant to a game with performance issues...

 

[Ordo Impavidus]

They should have just trashed this whole project instead from the get go.

There was no passion instilled in this project. No passion whatsoever.

What drove it to fruition was the need for income at the expense of ethicality....nothing more.

 

[unmerged(15561)]

They should have just trashed this whole project instead from the get go.

There was no passion instilled in this project. No passion whatsoever.

What drove it to fruition was the need for income at the expense of ethicality....nothing more.

I think everyone would do things differently. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. A wonderful thing indeed.

 

[unmerged(401526)]

You don't need hindsight to know something is ethically wrong

 

[HighLigerBimBam]

No advantage to 64 bit? Color me a bit disturbed that vastly increased memory addressing is irrelevant to a game with performance issues...

The game does not need 4GB+ check your resources... Seriously most programs do not benefit from 64-bit (RAM wise). Infact i don`t know any game which needs 4GB+ RAM. Games do benefit from multithreading when running in 64-bit. But with Sots2 the advantage is about nothing.

 

[unmerged(15561)]

You don't need hindsight to know something is ethically wrong

Good intentions though lead to different destinations. Its not like following a Sat-nav. Or maybe it is. Sometimes when you start on a journey and you reach mid-way before realising it was not such a good idea, you cant turn back, you have to carry on. Plus from my experience life isnt so cut and dry.

Good people start out with good intentions and maybe enter a fuzzy grey area which they are unsure about, unprepared or inexperienced in dealing with. Mistakes can be made. You enter a dark tunnel and it just leads you down. The tunnel having no exits. Sometimes you just have to keep going and do the best you can along the way and hope at the end - it justifies the means, at least in an ethical way.

 

[Hexcaliber]

The game does not need 4GB+ check your resources... Seriously most programs do not benefit from 64-bit (RAM wise). Infact i don`t know any game which needs 4GB+ RAM. Games do benefit from multithreading when running in 64-bit. But with Sots2 the advantage is about nothing.

I am sorry, but its clear your understanding of 64 bit is rudimentary and incorrect; far and away the greatest benefit of 64 bit code is the way large data arrays are handled, with performance gains in the order of several hundred percent over 32 bit, and large data arrays will be used extensively in a game like Sots 2.

Many 64 bit instructions can also carry out multiple operations per cycle as opposed to the single operation of 32 bit, thereby cutting down the number of cycles per core required to carry out given tasks. The data addressing advantages of 64 bit extend beyond the maximum possible address space, giving access to 64 bit data types that allow the direct manipulation of larger values, reducing overheads that were present in 32 bit calculations. There are no inherent advantages of multi threading in 64 bit over 32 bit, your claim is an over simplification, any gain in performance is a result of gains elsewhere in the code due to 64 bit.

There are more advantages to 64 bit, but in order to explain them, the post starts getting longer and more technical, and the benefits in real terms are smaller; suffice to say, coded correctly ALL programs will benefit from a move to 64 bit, regardless off how much memory they may, or may not access, even where they are not multi threaded.

Almost forgot, the cap on addressing 4GB memory by programs is a "feature" of Microsoft's OS, and not 64 bit architecture, 64 bit processors can directly address a terabyte of memory. The figure is arbitrary, a guess by Microsoft as to how much memory the average program will require, a guess that already hampers developers no end. How much quicker do you think SOTS 2 would be if it had enough memory available to cache all sots 2 resources should that much memory be available on the host system? Please do not confuse this with caching in a ram disk, if sots 2 were allowed direct access to that much memory there are gains and reduced over heads, when compared to speed gains available on a system using a ram disk; using a ram disk is a poor cousin.

 

[unmerged(401526)]

Good intentions though lead to different destinations. Its not like following a Sat-nav. Or maybe it is. Sometimes when you start on a journey and you reach mid-way before realising it was not such a good idea, you cant turn back, you have to carry on. Plus from my experience life isnt so cut and dry.

Good people start out with good intentions and maybe enter a fuzzy grey area which they are unsure about, unprepared or inexperienced in dealing with. Mistakes can be made. You enter a dark tunnel and it just leads you down. The tunnel having no exits. Sometimes you just have to keep going and do the best you can along the way and hope at the end - it justifies the means, at least in an ethical way.

I hear what you are saying and I concur. However, I was here a year ago as many of us were and they knowingly released a product not even in an alpha stage and then blatantly lied about it just to get money. There are no good intentions in those choices, just greed, deceit, and maybe desperation. Good intentions would've been coming to the community asking for help financially and in return allowing us to "playtest" the game to get it to a released state (just an example). As it turns out, that's what we did anyway but based on a lie that was premeditated.

I know this is old hat so I will drop my end. Am I still bitter?....maybe just a little

 

[HighLigerBimBam]

I am sorry, but its clear your understanding of 64 bit is rudimentary and incorrect; far and away the greatest benefit of 64 bit code is the way large data arrays are handled, with performance gains in the order of several hundred percent over 32 bit, and large data arrays will be used extensively in a game like Sots 2.

Many 64 bit instructions can also carry out multiple operations per cycle as opposed to the single operation of 32 bit, thereby cutting down the number of cycles per core required to carry out given tasks. The data addressing advantages of 64 bit extend beyond the maximum possible address space, giving access to 64 bit data types that allow the direct manipulation of larger values, reducing overheads that were present in 32 bit calculations. There are no inherent advantages of multi threading in 64 bit over 32 bit, your claim is an over simplification, any gain in performance is a result of gains elsewhere in the code due to 64 bit.

There are more advantages to 64 bit, but in order to explain them, the post starts getting longer and more technical, and the benefits in real terms are smaller; suffice to say, coded correctly ALL programs will benefit from a move to 64 bit, regardless off how much memory they may, or may not access, even where they are not multi threaded.

Almost forgot, the cap on addressing 4GB memory by programs is a "feature" of Microsoft's OS, and not 64 bit architecture, 64 bit processors can directly address a terabyte of memory. The figure is arbitrary, a guess by Microsoft as to how much memory the average program will require, a guess that already hampers developers no end. How much quicker do you think SOTS 2 would be if it had enough memory available to cache all sots 2 resources should that much memory be available on the host system? Please do not confuse this with caching in a ram disk, if sots 2 were allowed direct access to that much memory there are gains and reduced over heads, when compared to speed gains available on a system using a ram disk; using a ram disk is a poor cousin.

I just wanted to be simple. And the 4GB cap is not a feature from microsoft. Its a necessarity for 32 bit applications. You can not address any more ram given 32 bits. I never talked about anything beside RAM, and you just state my understanding is incorrect. Seriously. I talked about RAM, nothing else, not about advanages of bigger datatypes. You seem to be alot younger than me, because of your attitude to show off. I worked my whole life as IT professional, so please make sure to stop pissing on other people threads.

 

[unmerged(306388)]

I worked my whole life as IT professional, so please make sure to stop pissing on other people threads.

Mengele worked his whole life as a doctor too.

 

[unmerged(15561)]

Lets please keep this debate civil and keep the discussion on topic.

Thank you.

 

[tului]

But my lovely AVX! I wish they would carry on developing it, people have to for us to advance. Of course had the rest of the game not needed so much love they would possibly have the dev time to spare. Kudos for trying to push us out of the 32 bit nest.

 

[hasoos]

That will tell me nothing about their patch.

Dude just uncheck your "prefer 64 bit" in options...

That only tells you if it is compatible with the same version. There have been many builds that have broke previous version same games. Dude.

 

[Solpel]

and if the update breaks your save, I doubt it's breaking it because of the removal of the 64 bit option, since unchecking that option as Castus already mentioned to you is removing it, and your save is fine
This is post "all clear", so they will try their best to make sure future updates do not break saves, there is never 100% guarantee though.

You also won't usually see updates every week anymore. The current update in beta that removes the 64 bit was primarily focused on getting MP switched over to steam from gamespy and even still it's a fairly large update in other area's(Setting teams during game creation is in now as well!)

To expand this topic, the removal of the 64 bit version is not permanent it is temporary so that they can focus resources better, eventually it will return when they can give it the time that is required in order to correct some of the issues it causes. Some issues like the black moons area easier to fix, but still take time, some of the other issues are not. So it's better to remove it for now until it doesn't cause problems.

The reason why 64 bit for gaming(not just sots2) is not really used yet is because the technology(libraries etc) are not where they need to be yet, so it's next to impossible to take full advantage of the "potential" benefits

This is all info that's been discussed on the Kerberos forums already, for those curious where this is coming from. I am in no way an expert on 64 bit processing or Kerberos development.

 

[Hexcaliber]

We were talking about 64 bit no?

The section where I say "the cap on addressing 4GB memory in programs is a "feature" of Microsoft's OS" was not supposed to include” 4GB”, that was an error, a typo, I had the LARGE_ADDRESS_AWARE flag (originally from 32 bit windows ) at the back of my mind as I was typing, and I just banged it out. Regardless, there is an arbitrary memory cap imposed by Microsoft in all of their 64 bit OS. If you really were the "IT professional" you claim, you would know this, and your response to my post would have been wholly different.

For your edification the memory soft caps in windows 7 are; Starter 8GB, Home Basic 8GB, Home Premium 16GB, Professional/ Enterprise/Ultimate 192GB.

Further, as an "IT professional", you should have known there are massive gains to be had from 64 bit code, particularly where large amounts of related data are processed, perfect for a game like SOTS 2; and worth pointing out, particularly as you were responding to someone questioning relative speed benefits. Finally, you most certainly would not have said " Games do benefit from multi threading when running in 64-bit.".

You may want to rethink your strategy of claiming to have worked as X, Y, Z, believing it adds weight to your posts, it does quite the opposite, particularly when there are holes a mile wide sitting between the lines.

 

[HighLigerBimBam]

That only tells you if it is compatible with the same version. There have been many builds that have broke previous version same games. Dude.

No this will run the game with 32 or 64 bit if applicable. And the change will not brake your savegames...