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87) Bug: Norwegian Succesion Laws

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Fornadan

Fornadan

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Norwegian Succesion Laws

In the game Norway has Elective Law, should not this rather be Salic Gavelkin(or Semisalic Gavelkind?)
True, the would-be king had to be recognised at the Ting, but he also had to be the king's son. Salic Gavelkind is probably closer to how the succesion actually worked than Elective Law
 
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Fornadan said:
In the game Norway has Elective Law, should not this rather be Salic Gavelkin(or Semisalic Gavelkind?)
True, the would-be king had to be recognised at the Ting, but he also had to be the king's son. Salic Gavelkind is probably closer to how the succesion actually worked than Elective Law
Click to expand...
I'd say Elective is about right, or probably Consanguinity... Do you think about the habit of having several co-kings?
 
With Elective Law, there is a fairly great chance that someone from an other dynasty than the Ynglings will inherit the Crown of Norway, especially the Jarl of the Orkneys with his large number of vassals.
 
In Norway, in Duchy of Trondelag, I was surprised to see my Duke's (and also King's) father always living. His name : Harald Ynngling, a good military leader.

Of course, it's Harald Hardraada, the lone father King Olaf III had, normally in a very different health status since Stamford Bridge... :D
A forgotten death, I think. ;)
 
Sire Philippe said:
In Norway, in Duchy of Trondelag, I was surprised to see my Duke's (and also King's) father always living. His name : Harald Ynngling, a good military leader.

Of course, it's Harald Hardraada, the lone father King Olaf III had, normally in a very different health status since Stamford Bridge... :D
A forgotten death, I think. ;)
Click to expand...
Not really. It's just that the scenario is set to Jan 1st, when he was still alive :p
 
Havard said:
Not really. It's just that the scenario is set to Jan 1st, when he was still alive :p
Click to expand...

Ah yes, and Guillaume is still in Normandy, waiting for wind. :rofl:
No, already in England ???
 
Havard said:
I'd say Elective is about right, or probably Consanguinity... Do you think about the habit of having several co-kings?
Click to expand...

well it's kinda right but the person being elected had to be able to trase his line back to Harald Hårfagre in order to be elected. so the elective law is not that historical cause you can end up with a total foreigner that is not an yngling and neither related to Harald Hårfagre. And that will happen sooner or later with the elective law and then the law wont be the right one for Norway
 
Altar_Boy said:
Not entirely true. The king between 970 and 995 was Håkon Jarl Siggursson and he was not related to Harald Hårfagre.
Click to expand...

that is true but in the game period this is true. And after the death of Olav the holy all the kings very related somehow to Harald Hårfagre. corect me if I'm wrong on that one... the Lade jarls were the only other Dynasty ruling norway... wassnt the lade jarls at sometime a vassal of the Danish king?
 
Altar_Boy said:
Not entirely true. The king between 970 and 995 was Håkon Jarl Siggursson and he was not related to Harald Hårfagre.
Click to expand...
They weren't kings, as stibogis mentions. They ruled Norway as Danish vassals.

I think now that salic consanguinity would be a better representation of the situation in Norway at the time...
 
stibogis said:
that is true but in the game period this is true. And after the death of Olav the holy all the kings very related somehow to Harald Hårfagre. corect me if I'm wrong on that one... the Lade jarls were the only other Dynasty ruling norway... wassnt the lade jarls at sometime a vassal of the Danish king?
Click to expand...

You are correct and the jarls doesn't count as "offical" norwegian kings, nor was Håkon jarl Sigurdsson a danish vassal (others where later). My point was that the farmers of Trøndelag wanted him as their King after the death of Håkon I "the good", hence the reference to the electivness law. Of course the other heirs resited his claim to the whole of Norway, as always, and war broke out. In the real world, people (especially heir to the throne) resisted the, somewhat unclear inheritence laws all the time and the new king almost always had to fight off the other contestants first. This, the game doesn't mimic, all the dukes and counts are loyal to the law even if that means the kingdom goes out of their dynasty.
 
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Ok I admit this is at best uncertain and a matter of definitions. Over to the real point, what kind of succssion laws does best describe Norway at that time, and elective clearly does not. I tend to agree with havard's last post that salic consanguinity probably is best, allthough other examples can be found I feel that this is the best fitting modell.
 
On a related note, the king brother IIRC, who also was the co-ruler of Norway at the time the GC starts, is in fact the vassal in Trøndelag... I guess it can't be simulated better, but just in case...:)
 
Nikolai said:
On a related note, the king brother IIRC, who also was the co-ruler of Norway at the time the GC starts, is in fact the vassal in Trøndelag... I guess it can't be simulated better, but just in case...:)
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That is known and intended. Co-king Magnus ruled from Nidaros, while Olaf was down in the south ("the eastern king" really). Since the former managed to die so early, the latter was selected to be the king, since co-kingship is not simulated by the game :)
 
Then I bow for that decision.:)
 
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