In the most recent dev diary (#32) one of the dev responses asks which mechanic currently absent in EUV from EUIV we'd like to see. And I figure this would be a good thread to gather the fans thoughts on which mechanics appear absent that we might be worried about and want to see a return, or confirmation that we want the removed. I'll start-
>National Ideas
This one worries me because I think every tag should have something that makes it play at least slightly differently than every other nation. Otherwise you really have no reason to not do anything but play the major nations. This is a problem I think Crusader Kings has- once you've worked your way up from Count to Emperor, there's not really much else you can do to make the experience different. Now I think this was done away with to be replaced with the National Values sliders system. But I don't think the sliders are really a replacement- because at the end of the day the sliders are mutable. They can be changed by the player, and I think in short order players will find the optimal/path of least resistance to them and you have the same problem of doing the same strategies every time.
Now to pitch my own idea, while I want National Ideas to return, I think a complement to them could be a cultural modifier for every culture group. Now this might come with an issue for Hybrid Cultures, but you could just pick which one modifier it gets, rather than letting it get multiple. In general I think Cultures end up being pretty universal in that the only important thing about them is their size- how large a culture can easily be integrated into your society. Whereas I'd like them to give a gameplay benefit.
>Idea-Groups
Like National Ideas I think this was folded into the National Values sliders. And like them, I don't see this as a replacement. I think nudging the sliders over the various decades of a campaign is going to be a much more passive experience than looking at the ideas menu, strategizing, and committing to a path for your country that will impact your strategy. Your first idea group is one of the most important, and I think engaging, decisions you make while playing the game.
Personally I suspect a lot of people will think the sliders will work tremendously better than either of the above two systems, and they'll get pretty bored of the sliders by their fifth campaign, at which point I hope that we can get Paradox to get them back in. Optimally as a free patch feature, since this was a base-game option in EUIV.
>Developing, Concentrate Development, Razing, and Develop Infrastructure
Now this one I have fewer criticisms for Paradox. For one, I do agree that it's odd you can stockpile development and create a city overnight in a random province. I'm worried though that adding development from a cabinet interaction is a little too passive. I'm also worried that it's a bit more limiting- in EUIV I could spread out development across a region, while I'm worried that having a cabinet member do it is gonna restrict it to a single tile that will have to be babysat for a number of years. It's not necessarily that I want the old system as is- more that I don't want developing a province to be turned into a passive mechanic.
Likewise though, Concentrate Development seems gone. Now- personally this isn't a feature I'm sad to see go, I never used it because I didn't see the point in redistributing development all that much. But I thought I'd mention it for completeness sake.
Razing however is something a lot of people enjoyed. Though I doubt this is completely gone, and we're just waiting for the right dev diary to talk about it, so I'm gonna give them the benefit of the doubt here, and move on.
Develop Infrastructure I think could be an interesting one. Personally I think the name is silly- I think it was meant to represent stuff like building roads, yet it never impacted troop movements. Now we have actual roads. But I like the mechanic of turning a good province into a better one, with the benefit being to small and tall nations. And I would like that to return. In fact- developing your nation was initially aimed to promote Tall playthroughs. And I think in general we haven't heard much about how those playstyles will be suited, so I'd like a dev-diary on this. However- what I think could be implemented, as a complement to Develop Infrastructure, is Land Reclamation. This would be expensive and take a long time, and would be limited to coastal and wetlands provinces, but it would improve such tiles. Venice would be one of the chief benefactors of this, and I think it happened often enough in history to be worth implementing.
>Local Organizations
Now this is a mechanic I think is probably obscure to most people. Starting with Spain you could grant buffs to areas in exchange for Mana, and it was expanded to a few more nations. This might be replaced though with the 'micro-nations' they've added. Now- I'm not actually arguing for a return of these, though I think the idea has merit and could be expanded in EUV, but I'm not demanding it return as is. Just that I would like to see Paradox continue to experiment with the idea. In general I like the idea of buffing up my territories.
>Flagship/Naval Doctrines
Not a mechanic a lot of people focused on, but I do think Naval Gameplay needs fleshing out. I like the ability to customize your own flagship, though it was often a little too expensive. I also liked nations being able to customize the way they approached naval warfare that could set them apart from other nations. I see no reason why these mechanics should make a return.
>Monuments
This seems to have been replaced by the 'Great Works' system. However, I don't think it's been explained quite well what exactly the Great Works do for you as a player. Now I think Great Works are good for representing say written works of art, or paintings or the like, or even small artifacts. That helps build up a lot more national character than buildings alone would.
However I fear this doesn't work as a replacement- Monuments had two key components- that they made a tile much more strategic in its importance, and to different nations depending on culture or religion making certain tiles more important than others, and that they offered another way to invest in the nation. I want to see a return to Monuments from EUIV, with the ability to invest and upgrade them.
The rest here I think we just haven't heard as much about, and will be discussed later, but I'm gonna add for sake of completeness-
>Mandate of Heaven System
We'll likely get lots of info on this in the next dev diary, and I honestly would be surprised that very many important systems would get cut.
>Syncretic Religions
We've only just heard about some religious mechanics, and I want to see more of them. But with how religion has been retooled, I'm especially interested to see how syncretism would be reworked with it.
>Espionage
No word on this period. I would be shocked if it's not in the game, but I hope that the espionage system is expanded.
>Crusades
I think this has been mentioned, just not what it mechanically entails.
>Defender of the Faith
I don't think this has been mentioned, but I would be surprised if it's not there or downsized from it's last implementation
>Trade Companies
I think this one will be interesting since I expect them to become micro-nation vassals, but I'd like to see more of this. I think it would still be fun to be able to 'invest' in these like in EUIV, but I don't think the system needs to be the same.
>Schools of Thought
Unique to Islam, where they added a unique bonus to different tags, and you could 'borrow' others with good relations. I thought it was fun. And honestly, I think a similar system could be added to Hinduism with the differences between the Vaishnava's and the Shaivites. In general though we haven't gotten too much info on Islam.
>Migration/Federation Mechanics
Used by the American tribes, most of whom are replaced by SoP's. They've confirmed that SoP's will be unplayable at release, and I can't blame them. But personally I enjoyed migration mechanics, and the general gameplay loop for tribes trying to reform in EUIV. It was far from perfect, but I want to see it improved rather than axed. I especially liked how some mods were able to use the mechanic- for instance Anbennar with it's knightly companies. So I hope some sort of migration mechanic, and Federation Mechanics make a return. In particular, I'm sure players will love the ability to play as a mercenary company and travel across Eurasia.
>Exile Minorities
This wasn't something I was a fan of, since it lets you do ahistoric things like ethnically cleanse Wales by sending all the Welsh to Cuba and stuff. But I think with new population mechanics this could be improved in EUV. Rather than ejecting these pops, I think it makes more sense to like drop a flag that attracts that population to your target location- not everyone will leave, but a large chunk might who leave jobs that could be filled by your population. This might also work better for say the UK which never exiled religious minorities- they left of their own volition (the Puritans are lying to you about how much persecution they fled) to set up their own model societies.
>Cultural Unions
This one is me being paranoid. But this mechanic was absent in Imperator Rome, and it's the #1 thing I hate about that game. So far I don't think Cultural Unions have been discussed, while 'Cultural Unification' has. Now there's been enough backlash on that that they made it a toggleable feature, which is good. What I'm hoping this means is that it wasn't an attempt to remove Cultural Unions which I consider to be extremely important for expansion. Maybe I missed it, but I don't think Cultural Unions have been discussed much.
>Artillery Barrage/Naval Barrage
So far neither has been mentioned regarding warfare. Now I'm not wedded to the idea that it has to be in there. Though I think if it's not something needs to replace it- it's was something I found an important part of sieging.
>National Ideas
This one worries me because I think every tag should have something that makes it play at least slightly differently than every other nation. Otherwise you really have no reason to not do anything but play the major nations. This is a problem I think Crusader Kings has- once you've worked your way up from Count to Emperor, there's not really much else you can do to make the experience different. Now I think this was done away with to be replaced with the National Values sliders system. But I don't think the sliders are really a replacement- because at the end of the day the sliders are mutable. They can be changed by the player, and I think in short order players will find the optimal/path of least resistance to them and you have the same problem of doing the same strategies every time.
Now to pitch my own idea, while I want National Ideas to return, I think a complement to them could be a cultural modifier for every culture group. Now this might come with an issue for Hybrid Cultures, but you could just pick which one modifier it gets, rather than letting it get multiple. In general I think Cultures end up being pretty universal in that the only important thing about them is their size- how large a culture can easily be integrated into your society. Whereas I'd like them to give a gameplay benefit.
>Idea-Groups
Like National Ideas I think this was folded into the National Values sliders. And like them, I don't see this as a replacement. I think nudging the sliders over the various decades of a campaign is going to be a much more passive experience than looking at the ideas menu, strategizing, and committing to a path for your country that will impact your strategy. Your first idea group is one of the most important, and I think engaging, decisions you make while playing the game.
Personally I suspect a lot of people will think the sliders will work tremendously better than either of the above two systems, and they'll get pretty bored of the sliders by their fifth campaign, at which point I hope that we can get Paradox to get them back in. Optimally as a free patch feature, since this was a base-game option in EUIV.
>Developing, Concentrate Development, Razing, and Develop Infrastructure
Now this one I have fewer criticisms for Paradox. For one, I do agree that it's odd you can stockpile development and create a city overnight in a random province. I'm worried though that adding development from a cabinet interaction is a little too passive. I'm also worried that it's a bit more limiting- in EUIV I could spread out development across a region, while I'm worried that having a cabinet member do it is gonna restrict it to a single tile that will have to be babysat for a number of years. It's not necessarily that I want the old system as is- more that I don't want developing a province to be turned into a passive mechanic.
Likewise though, Concentrate Development seems gone. Now- personally this isn't a feature I'm sad to see go, I never used it because I didn't see the point in redistributing development all that much. But I thought I'd mention it for completeness sake.
Razing however is something a lot of people enjoyed. Though I doubt this is completely gone, and we're just waiting for the right dev diary to talk about it, so I'm gonna give them the benefit of the doubt here, and move on.
Develop Infrastructure I think could be an interesting one. Personally I think the name is silly- I think it was meant to represent stuff like building roads, yet it never impacted troop movements. Now we have actual roads. But I like the mechanic of turning a good province into a better one, with the benefit being to small and tall nations. And I would like that to return. In fact- developing your nation was initially aimed to promote Tall playthroughs. And I think in general we haven't heard much about how those playstyles will be suited, so I'd like a dev-diary on this. However- what I think could be implemented, as a complement to Develop Infrastructure, is Land Reclamation. This would be expensive and take a long time, and would be limited to coastal and wetlands provinces, but it would improve such tiles. Venice would be one of the chief benefactors of this, and I think it happened often enough in history to be worth implementing.
>Local Organizations
Now this is a mechanic I think is probably obscure to most people. Starting with Spain you could grant buffs to areas in exchange for Mana, and it was expanded to a few more nations. This might be replaced though with the 'micro-nations' they've added. Now- I'm not actually arguing for a return of these, though I think the idea has merit and could be expanded in EUV, but I'm not demanding it return as is. Just that I would like to see Paradox continue to experiment with the idea. In general I like the idea of buffing up my territories.
>Flagship/Naval Doctrines
Not a mechanic a lot of people focused on, but I do think Naval Gameplay needs fleshing out. I like the ability to customize your own flagship, though it was often a little too expensive. I also liked nations being able to customize the way they approached naval warfare that could set them apart from other nations. I see no reason why these mechanics should make a return.
>Monuments
This seems to have been replaced by the 'Great Works' system. However, I don't think it's been explained quite well what exactly the Great Works do for you as a player. Now I think Great Works are good for representing say written works of art, or paintings or the like, or even small artifacts. That helps build up a lot more national character than buildings alone would.
However I fear this doesn't work as a replacement- Monuments had two key components- that they made a tile much more strategic in its importance, and to different nations depending on culture or religion making certain tiles more important than others, and that they offered another way to invest in the nation. I want to see a return to Monuments from EUIV, with the ability to invest and upgrade them.
The rest here I think we just haven't heard as much about, and will be discussed later, but I'm gonna add for sake of completeness-
>Mandate of Heaven System
We'll likely get lots of info on this in the next dev diary, and I honestly would be surprised that very many important systems would get cut.
>Syncretic Religions
We've only just heard about some religious mechanics, and I want to see more of them. But with how religion has been retooled, I'm especially interested to see how syncretism would be reworked with it.
>Espionage
No word on this period. I would be shocked if it's not in the game, but I hope that the espionage system is expanded.
>Crusades
I think this has been mentioned, just not what it mechanically entails.
>Defender of the Faith
I don't think this has been mentioned, but I would be surprised if it's not there or downsized from it's last implementation
>Trade Companies
I think this one will be interesting since I expect them to become micro-nation vassals, but I'd like to see more of this. I think it would still be fun to be able to 'invest' in these like in EUIV, but I don't think the system needs to be the same.
>Schools of Thought
Unique to Islam, where they added a unique bonus to different tags, and you could 'borrow' others with good relations. I thought it was fun. And honestly, I think a similar system could be added to Hinduism with the differences between the Vaishnava's and the Shaivites. In general though we haven't gotten too much info on Islam.
>Migration/Federation Mechanics
Used by the American tribes, most of whom are replaced by SoP's. They've confirmed that SoP's will be unplayable at release, and I can't blame them. But personally I enjoyed migration mechanics, and the general gameplay loop for tribes trying to reform in EUIV. It was far from perfect, but I want to see it improved rather than axed. I especially liked how some mods were able to use the mechanic- for instance Anbennar with it's knightly companies. So I hope some sort of migration mechanic, and Federation Mechanics make a return. In particular, I'm sure players will love the ability to play as a mercenary company and travel across Eurasia.
>Exile Minorities
This wasn't something I was a fan of, since it lets you do ahistoric things like ethnically cleanse Wales by sending all the Welsh to Cuba and stuff. But I think with new population mechanics this could be improved in EUV. Rather than ejecting these pops, I think it makes more sense to like drop a flag that attracts that population to your target location- not everyone will leave, but a large chunk might who leave jobs that could be filled by your population. This might also work better for say the UK which never exiled religious minorities- they left of their own volition (the Puritans are lying to you about how much persecution they fled) to set up their own model societies.
>Cultural Unions
This one is me being paranoid. But this mechanic was absent in Imperator Rome, and it's the #1 thing I hate about that game. So far I don't think Cultural Unions have been discussed, while 'Cultural Unification' has. Now there's been enough backlash on that that they made it a toggleable feature, which is good. What I'm hoping this means is that it wasn't an attempt to remove Cultural Unions which I consider to be extremely important for expansion. Maybe I missed it, but I don't think Cultural Unions have been discussed much.
>Artillery Barrage/Naval Barrage
So far neither has been mentioned regarding warfare. Now I'm not wedded to the idea that it has to be in there. Though I think if it's not something needs to replace it- it's was something I found an important part of sieging.
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