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unmerged(2609)

Lt. General
Apr 3, 2001
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In vanilla, here is how the game works as Germany:

1) France. Puts units in Maginot line, you attack Belgium and Holland, and except for a few scattered units nothing even slows you down as you capture Paris and everything else.

2) Norway. There are only a few units. You just blast Oslo and walk unopposed to Narvik.

3) England. It is a challenge to avoid the navy, but once you get across the channel after beating France there isn't much challenge.

In HSR 1.02 playing normal/furious:

1) France. The AI tried to pull units off the Maginot line, but the Germans are fast enough that they can still win via a quick blast through the low countries. Even though it wasn't too hard, it was still immeasurably better than vanilla.

2) Norway. Norway garrisoned every beach province, which is nasty since a lot of those are mountains. I didn't feel confident using my navy to go after Narvik, so I had to go overland, which was a disaster. This is a 1000% improvement over vanilla.

3) England. England garrisoned its beaches better. I don't know if it is an HSR thing, but there are brutal stacking limits on seaborne invasions. I reloaded several times before I figured out that your best chance is to attack with just a few small stack of very elite marine units.

Even after Sealion, England is fighting very hard, and the battle in North Aftrica has gone back and forth. The Italians went to the Suez Canal, then were pushed back almost to Benghazi (but the Afrika Korps event didn't fire because they didn't get Tobruk), and now they are back almost to the canal again.

Very good job in my opinion. HSR rescues HOI2 the same way it rescued HOI1. HOI1 was fun until you figured out that it was impossible to challenge yourself -- it's yet another good-looking game with great mechanics and an AI that tries very hard, but in final analysis is dumber than a box of mud. The HSR mod is a vast improvement.

bruce
 
For all it's charms the AI isn't a human mind and so cannot compete in a game like HoI. That's why I love subtle ways of making it perform better, which the major mod teams all excel at :D (that said my first few trys at the Ardennes offensive in HoI2 ended in the rerun of the Great War.)
 
brucemo said:
In vanilla, here is how the game works as Germany:

1) France. Puts units in Maginot line, you attack Belgium and Holland, and except for a few scattered units nothing even slows you down as you capture Paris and everything else.

2) Norway. There are only a few units. You just blast Oslo and walk unopposed to Narvik.

3) England. It is a challenge to avoid the navy, but once you get across the channel after beating France there isn't much challenge.

In HSR 1.02 playing normal/furious:

1) France. The AI tried to pull units off the Maginot line, but the Germans are fast enough that they can still win via a quick blast through the low countries. Even though it wasn't too hard, it was still immeasurably better than vanilla.

2) Norway. Norway garrisoned every beach province, which is nasty since a lot of those are mountains. I didn't feel confident using my navy to go after Narvik, so I had to go overland, which was a disaster. This is a 1000% improvement over vanilla.

3) England. England garrisoned its beaches better. I don't know if it is an HSR thing, but there are brutal stacking limits on seaborne invasions. I reloaded several times before I figured out that your best chance is to attack with just a few small stack of very elite marine units.

Even after Sealion, England is fighting very hard, and the battle in North Aftrica has gone back and forth. The Italians went to the Suez Canal, then were pushed back almost to Benghazi (but the Afrika Korps event didn't fire because they didn't get Tobruk), and now they are back almost to the canal again.

Very good job in my opinion. HSR rescues HOI2 the same way it rescued HOI1. HOI1 was fun until you figured out that it was impossible to challenge yourself -- it's yet another good-looking game with great mechanics and an AI that tries very hard, but in final analysis is dumber than a box of mud. The HSR mod is a vast improvement.

bruce

Bruce you are forgetting something and that is the difficulty level you are using. From your comments I am assuming that you are using hardests in both HOI and HSR, right? if it is true you should also understand that Germany did not loose the war against the allies but against the soviets, you need a whole campaign to see how difficult a game is. Lets say that the initial western campaign might delay you enough for the soviets to grow too much and be unable to win the game. All the changes you are describing are as intended in HSR and for the next release you will also need to take the maginot to trigger vichy (as it was historically) obviously there will be some help there as it was in WWII... for Norway you will also need Bergen in the next release which might delay you a bit.
 
I'm playing on "normal/furious", without the Grofaz event, and I wasn't complaining about anything.

Vanilla is fun once or twice. After that, HSR is the way to go. Your mod is immeasurably better than vanilla, and my post was pointing this out.

The reason I play on "normal" is that I like like to start without handicaps for either side, which is what "normal" is in vanilla. It looks like the AI gets a 10% attack penalty in HSR. Next time I will try the harder difficulty levels.

Your Soviet campaign on "normal" is a little better than vanilla. Without the extra penalities that I assume are there in the harder settings, you have a very long time to make a lot of good decisions, so the AI still gets creamed.

Your garrison units drop even on Axis-occupied provinces, by the way. Rather than triggering on total provinces lost it may be better to trigger based upon specific provinces lost. I broke the Soviet front into three large pockets but didn't reduce them, in order to conserve TC, so I was through the defense lines before they existed.

bruce
 
brucemo said:
I'm playing on "normal/furious", without the Grofaz event, and I wasn't complaining about anything.

Vanilla is fun once or twice. After that, HSR is the way to go. Your mod is immeasurably better than vanilla, and my post was pointing this out.

The reason I play on "normal" is that I like like to start without handicaps for either side, which is what "normal" is in vanilla. It looks like the AI gets a 10% attack penalty in HSR. Next time I will try the harder difficulty levels.

Your Soviet campaign on "normal" is a little better than vanilla. Without the extra penalities that I assume are there in the harder settings, you have a very long time to make a lot of good decisions, so the AI still gets creamed.

Your garrison units drop even on Axis-occupied provinces, by the way. Rather than triggering on total provinces lost it may be better to trigger based upon specific provinces lost. I broke the Soviet front into three large pockets but didn't reduce them, in order to conserve TC, so I was through the defense lines before they existed.

bruce

I will check that out and change it if the work-benefit ratio allows it :)
thanks Bruce.