A few notes on 1.02b

[kionas76]

I have just played the current version and i have some interesting-i beliave-things for all of you.Tried it as a Germany,offered A-H support and war broke out.My initiall idea was not to implement Shlifen plan but rather try the older Moltke aproach.So balanced troops in both fronts and attack mainly in the east.Reason was that GB should not declare war against me if Belgium is unharmed and France has only 2 regions bordering me and they are easy to defend.However for checking game mechs i decided eventually to go historical(Belgium while Holland is free).
In the beggining attacked throught Arlon and Belgian fort divisions made a trouble for me althought i had 15 divisions with A/Eng brigades.The reason is not of their high GD(IIRC Mathguy had said that GD not working in a way that the more the better any time,and it should be the same here,because of the engine).The reason for the initiall trouble against Belgians was that Fort inf. is hard target and in the beggining troops have very low HA value so it take smore time to beat them even with mine 3-1 or 4-1 strenght(i beliave that if you give some SA value to fort units it will be perfect).
I broke to Chaumont and throught Reims attacked Paris which i took in less than 40 days of the beggining althought French mobilization create problems(we can fix it if the mobilization effect spreads the divisions in important cities all over France so if a player wishes to bring to the front has either to SR them or force march them,this might help especially in Russian front when Russian had difficulty to bring all their army against the central powers and the historical 8-10 Geramn divisions there can be accomplished).However northern France was mine plus Belgium,i had to take Metz plus to encircle the rest regions from Paris to German borders for French defeat to happen.
The A-H finished of Serbs to fast,reason is that A-H uses much more troops than historically they did(A-H plans were going to send against Serbia 1/5 or 2/5 of mobilised army depending on the plan used,while in my case A-H deployed 5-7 divisions in every border area with Serbia and thus overwhelm them,maybe if we twick the garrison A-H AI might fix it.HOWEVER Serbs in both A-H invasion that failed had an estim. 270.000 troops which is close to what A-H send,so we should either have a mobilization event for Serbs or more divisions from the beggining).
Russians had the worst and fewer rails in WW1 but when they mobilise AI can deploy everywhere so to represent the above and be accurate we have to break the mobilization effect in several such plus divisions should appear in major cities(Kiev,St Petersberg,Moscow,Irkutsk,Sevastopol,Stalingrad so it will take time to send them in the borders).
When French defeat fired it seems that i lost all provinces takes in both East and West plus aftre a week war broke out again by the Andante declaring it against me so something is wrong.
Get ride of the Gas brigade,takes to much time to give results plus to costly for the few it gives.Motor divisions are of no use,instead alter tech tree so it will give infantry divisions a chance to motorize by improving their speed(give them trucks).Fort infantry should stay but some SA strenght should be given to them.Instead of Gas this brigade should be Tanks,i know some might not agree but Tank division is not to put together some tanks and send them to fight,just them most complicated formation ever in military,whouldnt be possible to form in WW1,so a Tank brigade seems better.
Some techs like advanced cruiser do not appear althought all needed in tech tree have been found.The manpower to firepower and firepower to manpower techs do not work.Everytime i research them new divisions 100% i am sure that have the same as before MP/IC needs.Other techs seems to lead nowhere like AT 70 mm weapons and some of the last Land Doctrines.
That is for know,i will be back.Keep going,seems better than original HoI

 

[kionas76]

Something that remembered

The reason Germas can take the edge if they are AI controlled is because of their troop location.AI spreads the army everywhere(even Denmark borders so in game reality Shlifen plan is impossible),even more is the fact that althought Germans had no more than 15-20 divisions above French in 1st drive to Paris their troops had an edge,every German division had more guns than a regular french one,in corps level they even had siege batteries attached,even the reserve Geramn divisions had more art. than regular French had.This means that they employed more firepower per division so not a bad idea some of OOB German divisions have art. brigades.
Do you consider of having a German mobilization event as it should be?

 

[kionas76]

Note for ALLENBY

What is your adress if i am going to send you some Greek staff?Mainly generals and admirals names with their experience and traits?

 

[Allenby]

we should either have a mobilization event for Serbs or more divisions from the beggining).

A mobilisation event would be suitable - Serbia created six divisions on the outbreak of war.

Russians had the worst and fewer rails in WW1 but when they mobilise AI can deploy everywhere so to represent the above and be accurate we have to break the mobilization effect in several such plus divisions should appear in major cities(Kiev,St Petersberg,Moscow,Irkutsk,Sevastopol,Stalingrad so it will take time to send them in the borders).

It isn't possible to deploy them to particular cities

When French defeat fired it seems that i lost all provinces takes in both East and West plus aftre a week war broke out again by the Andante declaring it against me so something is wrong.

I doubt the Germans would have kept Paris had they won in 1914. The 'revanchist' problem can be sorted out by decreasing DI by a thousand when defeat triggers.

Get ride of the Gas brigade,takes to much time to give results plus to costly for the few it gives.

They're being replaced by a Heavy Weapons Section

Motor divisions are of no use,instead alter tech tree so it will give infantry divisions a chance to motorize by improving their speed(give them trucks).

They're going to transform into Guards Infantry

Fort infantry should stay but some SA strenght should be given to them.

....being turned into Reservists for next time round

Keep going,seems better than original HoI

Indeed

Do you consider of having a German mobilization event as it should be?

Yes - how many divisions, we're not sure. I counted 57 divisions formed in August 1914 in the WWI Databook.

What is your adress if i am going to send you some Greek staff?Mainly generals and admirals names with their experience and traits?

dsw6000[a]hotmail.com to email the great man himself

 

[StephenT]

A mobilisation event would be suitable - Serbia created six divisions on the outbreak of war.
...
Yes - how many divisions, we're not sure. I counted 57 divisions formed in August 1914 in the WWI Databook.

But make sure to check this against the starting OOBs, because certainly in the case of Germany I think Johan included some if not all of these 57 divisions in their starting OOB.

 

[Gwalcmai]

You know, about that "can't deploy divisions to a particular province" thing. That was for regular infantry, right? Maybe it works with "reservists" divisions?

 

[StephenT]

It works with the folowing unit types:
paratroopers (light infantry)
marines
militia
motorised infantry (guards)

 

[Gwalcmai]

You're right, it fails for infantry, cavalry, mountain inf and mech inf (damn). No chance we could rearrange the unit types to make it possible to add reserves in a province by event? The mobilization events should be the ones in direst need of the "add in province" feature. Besides, if it's not going to be fort infantry should it still be a hard target?

 

[Allenby]

But make sure to check this against the starting OOBs, because certainly in the case of Germany I think Johan included some if not all of these 57 divisions in their starting OOB.

I suspected as much. Fifty-seven divisions did seem a bit excessive considering what Germany begins with.

Besides, if it's not going to be fort infantry should it still be a hard target?

I wonder what other space they could use though? Mechanised are Reservists and Motorised are Guards - should they be swapped?

 

[StephenT]

There are, IMO, only two ways to justify making a unit a hard target:

It uses APCs and tanks - not appropriate for WW1

It spends its time hiding inside fortifications - far more appropriate for a static division than an attack division unit.

Alternatively, we could simply leave the model out of the mod entirely - if that's possible?

 

[Gwalcmai]

I think we then run into the problem of the AI building units it shouldn't. But if we can set the AI not to build them, maybe leaving them out would be appropriate. Either that or we negate the SA/HA difference by giving increases ot both for each tech advance.

 

[kionas76]

Hallo

Ok so can somebody please explain why the mobilization event is not possible to give divisions in certain cities and if it indeed true then what will happen with the Shliffen plan.After all it was based in the presumption that until russians had brought their whole force to the front France whould be defeated.
Why shouldnt fort divisions stay as they are,these troops should represent units permanently placed as garrison in fortified positions and should be able of SR but not movement.The hard target is because they fight inside field works/bunkers,a structure of cement and reinforced concrete which is accepteble "hard target" for WW1(not talking about WW2),they can also be a solution for a player that does not want to guard coastal areas and small islands with regular division(something that the AI does to often),even more the concept of enplaced fortified infantry can be used in vanilla HoI especially to represent Japanes units in numerous small islands of the Pasific(especially if they are created form no more than 5 MP-brigade sized).
The problem that encountered as German after Antante defeat and the almost immediate DoW from them is that they were supposed to sign a peace treaty and demobilise,instead they went to war again.I think that it is a bug or defeat events for Antante needs more work.
My opinion about light infantry is that these units are not necessery.The reason is that most of them were either deployed in areas outside Europe when infrastructure could not allow very heavy equipment or the guns usually given to regulars were not available.
Are there any thoughts of placing in some German divisions art. brigades as i suggested in their OOB?1 last thing,what about the idea of a Tank brigade,do you all want to have them in division size units?
Does anybody else saw the advanced cruiser problem or happend to me only?
What about the techs MANPOWER-FIREPOWER and the opposite,has anybody any ideas on how it is going to work?

 

[Gwalcmai]

It's not possible to make fortress infantry unable to move. The game will always allow it movement, even if at speed 1.

 

[Allenby]

It uses APCs and tanks - not appropriate for WW1

It spends its time hiding inside fortifications - far more appropriate for a static division than an attack division unit.

Can't a division entrenched, behind barbed wire and obstacles with pillboxes dotted around be termed as a 'hard target'?

 

[Allenby]

Ok so can somebody please explain why the mobilization event is not possible to give divisions in certain cities and if it indeed true then what will happen with the Shliffen plan.After all it was based in the presumption that until russians had brought their whole force to the front France whould be defeated.

We don't know.

Why shouldnt fort divisions stay as they are,these troops should represent units permanently placed as garrison in fortified positions and should be able of SR but not movement.The hard target is because they fight inside field works/bunkers,a structure of cement and reinforced concrete which is accepteble "hard target" for WW1(not talking about WW2),they can also be a solution for a player that does not want to guard coastal areas and small islands with regular division(something that the AI does to often),even more the concept of enplaced fortified infantry can be used in vanilla HoI especially to represent Japanes units in numerous small islands of the Pasific(especially if they are created form no more than 5 MP-brigade sized).

I just don't think that fortress infantry is necessary, when the game already comes with fort building capabilities.

The problem that encountered as German after Antante defeat and the almost immediate DoW from them is that they were supposed to sign a peace treaty and demobilise,instead they went to war again.I think that it is a bug or defeat events for Antante needs more work.

I indicated a solution in a previous post in this thread. 'Revanchism' can be stopped by invalidating a country's ability to engage in diplomacy after defeat.

My opinion about light infantry is that these units are not necessery.The reason is that most of them were either deployed in areas outside Europe when infrastructure could not allow very heavy equipment or the guns usually given to regulars were not available.

Perfect for combat in places like Africa then?

Are there any thoughts of placing in some German divisions art. brigades as i suggested in their OOB?

Possibly. But how many divisions, and which ones?

last thing,what about the idea of a Tank brigade,do you all want to have them in division size units?

Tank Brigades are already in the mod.

Does anybody else saw the advanced cruiser problem or happend to me only?

Just another one of the many bugs in the tech tree.

 

[Gwalcmai]

Can't a division entrenched, behind barbed wire and obstacles with pillboxes dotted around be termed as a 'hard target'?

Why is a reserve division entrenched, behind barbed wire and obstacles with pillboxes dotted around a harder target than a regular infantry division entrenched, behind barbed wire and obstacles with pillboxes dotted around?

 

[StephenT]

By definition, an attack division shouldn't be sheltering behind barbed wire and obstacles; it should be out there in No-Man's Land charging the enemy trenches.

Even on the defensive, you have two strategies: hunker in bunkers and rely on your artillery and machine guns; or launch constant counter-attacks to drive the enemy out of any position they've captured. If you want your army to follow the first strategy, build static divisions; for the second, regular divisions.

 

[Allenby]

I was referring to trench divisions.

Problematically, reservists do not have the same traits as trench divisions, so the mechanised slot is going to have to be made vacant.

Therefore, reservists and trench divisions can be turned into militia models 2 and 3.

 

[Gwalcmai]

By definition, an attack division shouldn't be sheltering behind barbed wire and obstacles; it should be out there in No-Man's Land charging the enemy trenches.

Even on the defensive, you have two strategies: hunker in bunkers and rely on your artillery and machine guns; or launch constant counter-attacks to drive the enemy out of any position they've captured. If you want your army to follow the first strategy, build static divisions; for the second, regular divisions.

That about the attack divisions is why I asked about regular infantry, not guards.

We should come up with a way to make the reserves be almost only available with the mobilization events. After all, you call up the reserves and after that you only raise other kinds of divisions. Or we just ignore reserve divisions and have part of the divisions given by event be guards, part regular and part trench divisions.

About using militia, I don't know if we should do that. If we do, then the militia will benefit from all the techs that improve the other kinds.

 

[kionas76]

Here i am.

Ok about reserve divisions.You do remember that in CORE mod there is a tech for Germany that allows them to create Elite divisions and the 1944 type divisions.I beliave that the consept can be implemented the following way.A tech or doctrine called "Reserve division" or whatever you prefer to call it.This will allow a new infantry(only) division that will represent reserve divisions and will have a little lower org. and SA value to represent the fact that reserve units in mobilization were almost same quality troops with fewer machine guns and art.This will help player to create also(for later in war)units with lower attack but almost same GD and they will be much different from militia which has always been the last reserve for a commander to employ.
About the idea i had to use,specific cities for mobilization units to appear i think its possible.From CORE(once again,i have seen a Jap event that allows the Jap player to take some units in certain China regions and they appear only there IIRC)so maybe somebody may try to tweak just for the experiment the mobilization file and see what will happend.
One last thing,what is the latest decision about attached brigades?