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Buladelu

General
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Jul 16, 2008
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Making requests for an unreleased game is pretty dumb. There's game design and making proposals on it without actually playing the game for a long time is dumb. And UI and balance stuff will be fixed post release. However I very much hope Paradox will focus on the thing it always leaves underdeveloped.

Flavor.

Every Paradox strategy to date met me with a promise of flavor. I remember EU2 historical events. Victoria 1 asking me to chose naval doctrine with pretty picture of some ship. And there was period music on background, and most important capitals had special icons. I remember Crusader Kings 2 meeting me with diplomatic messages from characters starting with appropriate greeting depending on culture and disposition.

But this facade had very quickly disappeared. When I saw first several diplomatic messages in CK2 I thought there would be a system of special messages. But no, there are only couple of them and soon you stop noticing those snippets. Same for everything else. But there was still a historical context filling everything with meaning. EU4 national ideas helped somewhat, but the game mostly feels real cause all those names like Burgundy or Novgorod resonate with what I know.

We won't have this in space. Perhaps playing as humans we will automatically name places with familiar names. But overall my greatest concern about Stellaris is it would be sterile and soulless. I try to imagine playing EU4 with random names on random map and it feels ten times less appealing.

I hope that Stellaris will try to hold us with flavor. Images or videos for events. Special personality for races. Vocabulary depending on this personality. Imaginative tech, planet, event, trait descriptions. I understand things like those take time, but this is very important for players even if we're not conscious about this, and it's not something you can add later. Please think about it.

TLDR: Stellaris will need much more flavor everything cause we can't invent our own context based on our knowledge of history.
 
I think it will be very soulless and we come up with our OWN flavor.

I mean, games will probably run a long while. Creating our civilisation and the first phase, exploration and colonisation, will define our nation, give it history.

Based upon that history, we can act. You could have a Roman-themed empire for example.
 
Actually... didn't they say that all random species will have a past? The whole universy will have a past and you can research it. That's what I remember.

It would be great. Kind of Dwarf Fortress world generation, right? It may be a very interesting mechanic and it feels me with hope.
 
We won't have this in space. Perhaps playing as humans we will automatically name places with familiar names. But overall my greatest concern about Stellaris is it would be sterile and soulless.

I totally agree and this is a Big Deal. I've spent many hundreds of hours on CK2, primarily I think due to that fantastic combination of 'roleplay' with the grand strategy... and the silent partner is 'actual history'.

On the flipside, just having a wad of text to inject it is not really going to cut it. Seems to me the key will be allowing players to 'build' the history of worlds they encounter:
First contact yields a chunk of knowledge and maybe some history. Player / alien actions and reactions build the story. Random events and 'intelligence' about interactions between other races will embellish it.

That whole tapestry of stories is going to be difficult to hold in mind (again, no 'real world' historical frame of reference).

All that points to a need for a feature / interface that allows the player to quickly recall the "past"... perhaps similar to the CK2 Chronicle. How that is executed has the potential to lift this from 'just another space sim' to something truly immersive. Ledgers, spreadsheets and coloured maps aren't going to be enough.
Accessibility of this info while engaged in other actions will also be pretty important... "Did we ever get over that faux pas with these hypno-toads or we are in it deep now?"
 
This is something we are acutely aware of, and real effort is being put into making the galaxy feel like an interesting place and not just a bunch of stars grouped together. We get a lot of stuff for "free" in our historical games since most people at least have a passing familiarity with their settings, but our aim is to have the same kind of immersion here.

So in short... we're stuffing the game with as much flavor as we can. :)
 
If you want EU4/CK2 flavor you'll need to do something like...

Each race draws on a backstory that deals with other races. Add like 100 backstory lines, modded by your original choices. So we can learn that race X and Y used to be friends until Z happened. Or race A totally tried to genocide race B. Etc.

Maybe add a toggle for backstories effecting the game. So race A and race B can have historical rivals, while B and C have historical allies. Something like that. So once you read all the backstories you feel like your universe was created just for you.
 
A very astute concern, and a good answer from PDS.
I'm thinking that you might look at something like Distant Worlds.
(Although I guess you already know the game?)
 
Back to the dynamic prehistoric generation, it'd be awesome if one faction discovers that they were slaves to the predecessor of another faction and they would get a 'reparations' casus beli.
 
This is something we are acutely aware of, and real effort is being put into making the galaxy feel like an interesting place and not just a bunch of stars grouped together. We get a lot of stuff for "free" in our historical games since most people at least have a passing familiarity with their settings, but our aim is to have the same kind of immersion here.

So in short... we're stuffing the game with as much flavor as we can. :)
Chocolate or vanilla flavour? Maybe even strawberry? Now I am doubly hyped
 
Making requests for an unreleased game is pretty dumb. There's game design and making proposals on it without actually playing the game for a long time is dumb. And UI and balance stuff will be fixed post release. However I very much hope Paradox will focus on the thing it always leaves underdeveloped.

Flavor.

Every Paradox strategy to date met me with a promise of flavor. I remember EU2 historical events. Victoria 1 asking me to chose naval doctrine with pretty picture of some ship. And there was period music on background, and most important capitals had special icons. I remember Crusader Kings 2 meeting me with diplomatic messages from characters starting with appropriate greeting depending on culture and disposition.

But this facade had very quickly disappeared. When I saw first several diplomatic messages in CK2 I thought there would be a system of special messages. But no, there are only couple of them and soon you stop noticing those snippets. Same for everything else. But there was still a historical context filling everything with meaning. EU4 national ideas helped somewhat, but the game mostly feels real cause all those names like Burgundy or Novgorod resonate with what I know.

We won't have this in space. Perhaps playing as humans we will automatically name places with familiar names. But overall my greatest concern about Stellaris is it would be sterile and soulless. I try to imagine playing EU4 with random names on random map and it feels ten times less appealing.

I hope that Stellaris will try to hold us with flavor. Images or videos for events. Special personality for races. Vocabulary depending on this personality. Imaginative tech, planet, event, trait descriptions. I understand things like those take time, but this is very important for players even if we're not conscious about this, and it's not something you can add later. Please think about it.

TLDR: Stellaris will need much more flavor everything cause we can't invent our own context based on our knowledge of history.

Agreed. Flavour is needed and I'm glad they have it under consideration.I really do miss the historical events of EU2 and Vicky1
 
there needs a Spore-Stellaris converter dammit!i want my wacky abominations to rule the galaxy and crush those human upstarts!
 
This is something we are acutely aware of, and real effort is being put into making the galaxy feel like an interesting place and not just a bunch of stars grouped together. We get a lot of stuff for "free" in our historical games since most people at least have a passing familiarity with their settings, but our aim is to have the same kind of immersion here.

So in short... we're stuffing the game with as much flavor as we can. :)
Have you considered hiring a full time writer? Someone's who's main job is stuffing the game with as much story content as there is time to. Because while we appreciate that the scripters and programmers add the things they think would be cool, their main job is coding. It's not that you guys lack talent, I just that it takes dedicated time to get a bulk of cool events and stuff in there.
 
So in short... we're stuffing the game with as much flavor as we can.
Excellent! :D

it takes dedicated time to get a bulk of cool events and stuff in there.
Actually, there's possibly as much need to focus on new and better ways to manifest events and build 'the story'. No doubt the actual events can be added ad infinitum from here on, through every patch and DLC. Presumably the real challenge at the outset is to bring fresh bells and whistles to interactively deliver the events, stories and history.

CK2 really nailed it: the dynasty maps, the natural (and unnatural) relationships of families, the politics of marriage, the mechanics of diplomacy, leveraged by traits, and really quite intuitive. OP pointed out, "soon you stop noticing those snippets" - because world history and actual human traits are filling in the blanks so easily.

How will Stellaris take this virtuous functionality circle literally to the "next generation", and give it a soul? I'm imagining
- interactive events via comlink or ansible
- with augmented reality overlays
- on the bridge of a starship or situation room - to allow reference to other gadgets.
And some type of hologrammatic "Civilopedia", keeping track of all the discoveries, stories and history...
 
This is something we are acutely aware of, and real effort is being put into making the galaxy feel like an interesting place and not just a bunch of stars grouped together. We get a lot of stuff for "free" in our historical games since most people at least have a passing familiarity with their settings, but our aim is to have the same kind of immersion here.

So in short... we're stuffing the game with as much flavor as we can. :)

Play Emperor of the fading suns and Alpha Centauri to learn how make sci fi games immersive.Nobody else has managed it since.
 
Excellent! :D


Actually, there's possibly as much need to focus on new and better ways to manifest events and build 'the story'. No doubt the actual events can be added ad infinitum from here on, through every patch and DLC. Presumably the real challenge at the outset is to bring fresh bells and whistles to interactively deliver the events, stories and history.

CK2 really nailed it: the dynasty maps, the natural (and unnatural) relationships of families, the politics of marriage, the mechanics of diplomacy, leveraged by traits, and really quite intuitive. OP pointed out, "soon you stop noticing those snippets" - because world history and actual human traits are filling in the blanks so easily.

How will Stellaris take this virtuous functionality circle literally to the "next generation", and give it a soul? I'm imagining
- interactive events via comlink or ansible
- with augmented reality overlays
- on the bridge of a starship or situation room - to allow reference to other gadgets.
And some type of hologrammatic "Civilopedia", keeping track of all the discoveries, stories and history...
Eh, no after a while you know most events and so they start to feel like game mechanics rather than story telling.