A word of caution about the 'Real EU' type of changes.

[unmerged(1744)]

Hey folks,

Well, I've played a few games using the IGC and the RealEU mods and I have watched a few as friends played them. So far, the mods are pretty damned good!

But in the process of watching a game using Turkey and of playing a game using Persia, I have noticed the following unintended and unwelcome results:

By lowering the 'Monarch Values' and the Tech Progression category of the minors, most of Western Europe stagnates compared to the East when played competently. All of those Minors who are getting ahead of the Major in Europe in the 'standard' setting are conveying 'Neighbor bonuses' on all the adjacent countries resulting in them moving up at a faster rate too. When those minors are no longer providing those bonuses, the larger nations are held back too. In both of the above mentioned games, Turkey and Persia are FAR ahead in tech by the 1530s. Most of Western Europe is around tech 7-8 for Land while Turkey in the one and Persia in the other are 11 or 12. This is a pretty substantial lead for that early in the game. The rate in increase shows that its only going to get worse as the games go on as well.

I think this is a very unwanted side effect of the changes made. I have already 'undone' the changes for my game as I think I'd rather have the 'minors' be slightly ahead than the Turks be REALLY ahead! I havent seen the AI Turkey do this as easily, but they certainly dont fall behind at all when I am playing a country like England etc.

So, this is just a word of caution about making sweeping (and well intentioned) changes to the game. The longer term side effects couldt be much worse than problems they are intended to fix.

Hope this is some help to would-be modders out there.

Talenn

 

[unmerged(1798)]

Originally posted by Talenn

Hey folks,

Well, I've played a few games using the IGC and the RealEU mods and I have watched a few as friends played them. So far, the mods are pretty damned good!

But in the process of watching a game using Turkey and of playing a game using Persia, I have noticed the following unintended and unwelcome results:

By lowering the 'Monarch Values' and the Tech Progression category of the minors, most of Western Europe stagnates compared to the East when played competently. All of those Minors who are getting ahead of the Major in Europe in the 'standard' setting are conveying 'Neighbor bonuses' on all the adjacent countries resulting in them moving up at a faster rate too. When . . . .
So, this is just a word of caution about making sweeping (and well intentioned) changes to the game. The longer term side effects couldt be much worse than problems they are intended to fix.

Hope this is some help to would-be modders out there.

Talenn

Interesting point, I haven't played these enough to notice, but it is a fear that I have expressed on the lists.

 

[Savant]

Very excellent observation

and a straightforward consequence of changing those values. I'm sure what you are seeing is real as your hypothesis is grounded on the game mechanics.

Just another reason to not mess with those values and seek alternative tweaks that don't upset game balance so much.

By lowering the 'Monarch Values' and the Tech Progression category of the minors, most of Western Europe stagnates compared to the East when played competently. All of those Minors who are getting ahead of the Major in Europe in the 'standard' setting are conveying 'Neighbor bonuses' on all the adjacent countries resulting in them moving up at a faster rate too. When those minors are no longer providing those bonuses, the larger nations are held back too. In both of the above mentioned games, Turkey and Persia are FAR ahead in tech by the 1530s. Most of Western Europe is around tech 7-8 for Land while Turkey in the one and Persia in the other are 11 or 12. This is a pretty substantial lead for that early in the game. The rate in increase shows that its only going to get worse as the games go on as well.

 

[unmerged(548)]

Anyone that has followed the development of RealEU will know that the monarch tweaking is a temporary fix of tech research imbalances in the 1.08 patch. In no way does LF like or intend to use such a feature in the future if 1.09 finaly gets it right again.
This is in fact the main reason it hasn't been implemented in the IGC. Hartmann & Doomie are counting on Paradox to have it fixed in 1.09 (an currently it seems like it will be ...).