Abominations of incest for Valyrians

[Kapitalisti]

I find it a bit odd that ALL clergy consider the offspring of incestuous pairings abominations, even when their religion downright approves of said relations (like the Valyrians). At the moment I'm trying a game with the Colonize Valyria submod and ran into the hilarious situation where my chaplain hates my character because he's an abomination of incest AND because he's not married to his sister. Make up your damn mind!

Now I do understand that this is a pretty damn marginal situation since the Valyrian religion is a pretty small one with only those weirdos in North Valyria and the inbred nutjobs in Volantis practicing it but still. Abhorring incest is of course all very well for Westerosi religions but I think the opinion malus should be just for them instead of all clergy. I'm also not sure about how R'hllor feels about incest, don't think it has ever really come up in the books and other materiel.

And yes, I also understand that the modifier predates Essos in the mod.

 

[Jia Xu]

I asked about this a long time ago and a member of the team explained this to me with a pretty reasonable answer. While it would be nice to give modifiers a specific penalty for temple vassals of specific religions, this isn't currently possible for modders. That's something that would have to be added on the PDS side of things, as far as I am aware. They could just give a general malice to all members of a specific religion, but that would make incest characters unplayable.

In my very (very) amateurish modder opinion, it might be possible to fix this by adding an abomination flag and then add an event which would add or remove the modifier depending on the location of a flagged character. The result could be something like a maintenance event adding the modifier if you're based out of Westeros and removing it if you're based out of Essos.

The modifier itself isn't bad. It's supposed to create a rocky relationship between divine blood families and the High Septon, and it does that. It's just a little awkward because of the limitations given to modders.

 

[Kapitalisti]

Huh, I thought it WAS possible to give opinion modifiers only to certain clergies, like the lustful trait in vanilla which has a "christian_church_opinion = -5" opinion modifier.

 

[Rambo]

I think that's a problem with the Valyria mod not being updated perhaps? because I played Said mod before, and never had that problem.

 

[Jia Xu]

Huh, I thought it WAS possible to give opinion modifiers only to certain clergies, like the lustful trait in vanilla which has a "christian_church_opinion = -5" opinion modifier.

Sorry for the late response, but I haven't had much time to play games and I wanted to personally test it for you. In the base game, unlike christian_opinion, it doesn't seem like christian_church_opinion can be re-purposed for other religions. While you can do stuff like indian_group_opinion, trying to add indian_group_church_opinion caused a straight up CTD for me.

As far as I can see, this is definitely something that only PDS can change for us. It would be a worthy addition to the list of modding suggestions on the wiki, IMO.

 

[mudcrabmerchant]

I think I know an easier way around this. The old Mazdayasna Zarathushtrish Zoroastrian flavor mod (eventually subsumed into Monotheism Rising, which is out of date now) made use of the triggered modifier system to make Zoroastrians look at certain traits different than Christians. It's not inherently obvious that you can do this, because there's only one modifier in the file in vanilla CKII, for bankruptcy.

An example:

zoroastrian_honesty = {
    potential = {
        religion_group = zoroastrian_group
    }
  
    trigger = {
        trait = honest
        religion_group = zoroastrian_group
    }
  
    icon = 12
    monthly_character_piety = 0.40
    church_opinion = 5
}

I guess there's a chance that the code doesn't allow this for stuff in the triggered modifiers file, but I think you could achieve the effect you want by restricting the potential to characters in Westeros, checking for the abomination of incest trait/flag/modifier, and giving a big hit to church opinion. Now, that wouldn't take into account an alt-history where you convert Westeros to Valyrian... but I think it would be good enough. You could probably also create triggered modifiers in pairs so that incest-haters and incest-lovers react differently - I'm not sure just how far you can take the scripting here, but if a triggered modifier can work on the vassal level affecting their opinion of their liege (is there an effect, like "opinion_of_liege"?), you could create a modifier that checks for a liege who is incestual and located in Westeros, and a non-Westerosi-religion theocratic ruler, to offset the general church opinion penalty.