Admiral Barbarossa, John Ward, Jan Janszoon and formable Barbary/Pirate state possibility?

[withche.07]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hayreddin_Barbarossa
https://www.britannica.com/biography/Barbarossa

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_pirates
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Barbary-pirate

Barbarossa is one of the most famous pirates/admirals in all history which was alive and doing gods works around 1500s to 1545s.
He beat holy league in Battle of Preveza, he kept raiding mediterrenean coasts, stealing ships from European powers. He established the Ottoman supremacy in the Mediterranean. The guy practically made Ottomans 3rd largest naval force.

Barbarossa AKA Redbeard
Greek/Turkish Pirate
circa 1530's
"He and his brother Aruj, sons of a Turk from Lesbos, took up piracy on the Barbary Coast in hopes of seizing an African domain for themselves. When Aruj was killed in 1518, Khidr took the title Khayr al-Din. He offered allegiance to the Ottoman sultan and in return received military aid that enabled him to capture Algiers in 1529. Appointed admiral in chief of the Ottoman Empire (1533), he conquered all of Tunisia. Emperor Charles V captured Tunis in 1535, but Khayr al-Din defeated his fleet at the Battle of Preveza (1538), securing the eastern Mediterranean for the Turks for 33 years. His red beard was the source of the epithet Barbarossa, used by Europeans."

I think that piracy/barbary naval actions might be lot more active in EU4 to make naval gameplay more serious and detailed by the way.

Also English later Muslim pirate called Jack Ward was also famous, possibly inspired Jack Sparrow character even.

John/Jack Ward AKA Yusuf Reis
Barbary Corsair
Active 1553 - 1622
"
In 1602 John Ward was jailed for plundering a Danish ship in the Caribbean. Then in 1603, Ward was forced into the Royal Navy, which by some was considered to be a fate worse than death. Shortly afterward, he and 30 others deserted at Plymouth and stole a small bark. Despite the size of the ship, they were able to capture a two larger ships, one with six guns, and set sail for the Mediterranean. Two years later he stole a 32-gun warship and renamed it the Gift and used it to plunder several merchantmen loaded with spices and silks.

In 1605 in Morocco, several English and Dutch sailors joined his crew, including Richard Bishop and Anthony Johnson. By the end of 1606, Ward had worked a deal with Uthman Dey, the ruler of Tunis. He was permitted to use Tunis as a safe haven from where he could strike out in hunt for prey. In return, Uthman Dey would buy their booty for a fifth of its true value. From their base, they took several rich prizes, including a 60 ton ship loaded with a tremendously valuable cargo.

The winter of 1607 Ward's largest ship became unseaworthy so he secretly deserted with a few of his crew, sailing off in a French ship. The large ship sank off Greece drowning 250 muslim and 150 English sailors aboard. The Tunisians were outraged over the loss of men and Ward's desertion, but Uthman Dey, wealthy from his dealings with Ward, offered him protection. Ward however offered King James I a large bribe in exchange for a pardon. King James refused Ward's offer and Ward was forced to return to Tunis. Uthman Dey kept his word, however, and Ward was safe. Ward eventually became a muslim and changed his name to Yusuf Reis. As Yusuf Reis, he continued his career in piracy until 1622, up until the age of 70. By then he had both an Italian wife and also a wife in England.

He lived out the rest of his life in luxury and may have died of the plague."


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_Abductions

Turkish supported piracy kept ongoing even into Atlantic sea, reaching Iceland.

Jan Janszoon
AKA Murad Reis
Active 1620

This Dutch privateer joined the Barbary corsairs and in 1627 led a Muslim fleet to Iceland, where they took slaves and plunder.

"Ireland was subject to a similar attack. In June 1631 Murat Reis, with corsairs from Algiers and armed troops of the Ottoman Empire, stormed ashore at the little harbor village of Baltimore, County Cork. They captured almost all the villagers and took them away to a life of slavery in North Africa"

 

[withche.07]

Actually there could be new kind of formable semi autonomous Barbary states to make naval gameplay lot more interesting.

Republic of Sale under Murat Reis?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Salé

 

[GurenGaaze]

I haven't really read or watched your videos as i'm to lazy atm, so I don't know how relevant this actually is. If it's not really relevant please don't bash me
In EU3 Pirates were a thing, and they were annoying as hell. And were only there for your navy to have something to do. I'm glad that isn't a thing in EU4.
I think around 1550 or something pirates spawned EVERYWHERE.

 

[withche.07]

Thank you these pirates were generaly operating free/half free under Ottomans banner. I am mostly looking for somekind of dynamic even playable pirate mechanic/state as they even had states in Morroco or Algiers.
I added info for Republic of Sale! under Jan Janszoon (Murat Reis)
1624–1668

https://hermetic.com/bey/pirate-utopias/the-moorish-republic-of-sale

Banner:

 

[GurenGaaze]

You could try and post all of this in the suggestion forums
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?forums/euiv-suggestions.874/
The more information you have/give the better, and might make the chances for it to happen be larger. Mark my words thought as I said "Might".

And despite me saying in Eu3 pirates were annoying as hell. With the devastation mechanic in EU4 as well as other mechanics might actually make pirates worthwhile annoying (if that makes sense lol)

 

[withche.07]

Oh, thank you for interest. I was actually planning to post this also on suggestions forum but I was unaware. Please mod, carry this thread to suggestions section.
I really want this to be discussed as

1. It is really interesting to play as pirate country
2. It would enrich naval gameplay so much

I have imagined state that keep getting its manpower from sailors, raiding and abducting coasts as gameplay, but not annexing deeper inside territories.

Possibly Naval Horde!

 

[Tom D.]

I think this would be great material for new Ottoman events, I still remember one such event of a female Chinese/Korean pirate/admiral in my Flanders into Dutch Republic run, I really like those kind of events with interesting event texts.

 

[withche.07]

Thank you. There are even stories told in Robinson Crusoe books from Daniel Defeo about Republic of Sale:
https://books.google.com/books?id=2OkXAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA14&dq=robinson+crusoe,+sallee

I also find it very interesting to add in game untold stories about these adventurers.

 

[DeerMan]

Although I am Italian and thus should despise Barbarossa I've always been absolutely fascinated by his character and indeed think that privateer should be reworked in something more brutal (like actual fighting could take place between pirates and merchant ships/warships hunting pirates.
But it's not likely too be soon introduced as we already had Mare Nostrum and Spain is in high request for next dlc

 

[withche.07]

According to sources all these former pirates spent their lives under safe haven by Ottomans (Sale) and saving Muslims from Spain.
Actually its quite right time to integrate this into game as Spanish-Muslim interactions will be lot more intense and we will prolly see events about it.

More info:
http://wunderkammertales.blogspot.com.tr/2015/01/the-sack-of-vestmannaeyjar-in-iceland.html

"With the know-how of Western renegades such as Simon de Danser, John Ward and Jan Janszoon, equipping the already hugely successful pirate ships of the Barbary States with new square rigs, allowing them to sail the Atlantic, Northern African piracy raised to an all-time high during the first half of the 17th century. Operating out of Algiers, Tripoli, Tunis and Salé (or Sallee, near modern Rabat) on the Barbary Coast, the corsairs range literally exploded from the Mediterranean to the coasts of western Spain, Portugal and France and north to Ireland and Iceland – their main booty being people to be sold on the slaves markets throughout Northern Africa and the Near and Middle East."

"Jan Janszoon already was a privateer when he was captured by Barbary Corsairs off Tenerife in 1618, converted to Islam and began a meteoric rise among the pirates and the Turkish fleet – parts of Northern Africa belonged to the Ottoman Empire during the 1600s – until he managed to become President and Great Admiral of the semi-independent Republic of Salé in 1624. Getting bored from just getting rich with his new office, Murat Reis the Younger set forth on raidsfrom time to time, the most successful being the capture of the island of Lundy in the Bristol Channel, using the place as base for further operations in the area for the next five years."


Jan Janszoon dressed up as Sallee Rover

"What exactly brought him and his ships to Iceland except the huge profit that could be made from selling Northern slaves is indeed unknown – but the Corsairs showed up at Grindavik, Austfirðir and Vestmannaeyjar in July of 1627. The three ships that reached Vestmannaeyjar – ironically named after Irish slaves, Vestmenn, Westmen, settled there by the Old Norse in the Early Middle Ages, were commanded by Murat Reis in person and made the biggest human catch of the expedition. All in all, 400 people were kidnapped from Iceland and sold as slaves on the Barbary Coast. Some were ransomed by the Danish Crown, others by their families or Christian relief organisations. One, Ólafur Egilsson, the Lutheran minister of Vestmannaeyjar, who was abducted himself and lost his family in Morocco, wrote an account of his ordeal, one of the quite common reports of the “Christian-abducted-by-the-Corsairs”-genre existing during the 17th and 18th century with various literary quality and credibility until “Abducted-by-Indians”-tales took over the market and accounts like Egilson’s became fantasy erotic novels, serving a certain taste of 19th century Europe and America, especially since the Barbary States ceased to be a real threat from the 1820s onwards."

 

[withche.07]

More information sources for Jon Janszoon:

http://handtonose.blogspot.com.tr/2008/04/european-pirates-in-ottoman-navy1jan.html
http://jimwilkworks.com/GENHUBBARDDATA04.html

info on Sale:
"The Town of Salé
from an 18th century account
The twin town of Rabat-Sallee, perhaps the scene of as much misery as any spot between Agadir and Algiers, is built on the banks of the Guerrou, (Bou-ragrag) which falls from the mountains of the Zoavais, and divides into two parts. That on the north part is called by the natives Sela (S'la), but by us Sallee. It is encompassed by good walls, about six fathoms (36 ft) high and two yards and a half (7 ft 6 ins) thick, composed of clay, red sand and lime. On the top of the walls are battlements flanked with good towers. The other part of the town which lies on the south side of the river is called Raval, (Arraval, or, Rabat, 34.0N 7.0W, “the side of the river on which the Europeans reside”) and occupies a much larger compass than the former. Within the circumference of this town are abundance of gardens, and a large field, where they might sow corn enough to serve 1,500 men. Its walls are very ancient; the natives say they were built by the first Christians who were brought out of Europe by the generals of Jacob Almanzor, king of Arabia Felix who conquered Spain. On the south-east quarter stands a high tower called Hasans, which serves as a landmark for ships to come in. At the foot of this mountain are docks for building ships, and for them to winter in. The ascent of this hill is so gentle that a man may ride on horseback to the top. “Sallee has two castles. The old stands directly at the mouth of the river Guerrou. Its walls are built on rocks, and very lofty, sheltering the governor's house, which joins to them, from any cannon shot. This castle is very irregular. Within this castle, and before its principal gate, is a high fort, which commands the town. Below, next to the sea, on the point of the rock facing the bar, is a bastion, mounted with five pieces of cannon, to secure the vessels which come in to an anchor in the road, and cover the retreat of the Corsairs, when pursued by the Christians. The new castle is situated on the south-west of the town. It was built by Murly Archy. There is a communication from one castle to the other by a high wall flanked with two towers, and built upon arches, under which the people pass when they go to walk upon the strand (beach). There are in this castle twelve pieces of brass cannon. The chief riches of this place consist in its piracies, the Sallee Rovers (the Salletines, or Slani, as they call themselves,) being the most expert and daring of any on the Barbary. The town is very well described by Mr. H. C. Browne in the English Illustrated Magazine for February, 1890, pp. 396-402."

Salé, Morocco
Salé was an independent corsair republic, across a small river from Rabat, Morocco. Salé has also been called Salli, Salee Sallee and Sally. Roving pirates from Salé were called the Sally Rovers by the British. There were several British sea shanties about the Rover's fearsome ways.

The Renegados:
A renegado was one of the most hated of the raises. They were Europeans who had become leaders of the Turks. From renegado came the terms renegade, a turncoat, and renege, to go back on one's word. Such a person was a former Christian who became a pirate, converted to Islam and preyed on European cargo ships from bases on the North African coast.

poem:

Oh! Some must tug the galley's oar, and some must tend the steed;
This boy will bear a Sheik's chibouk,* and that a Bey's jerreed.*
Oh! Some are in the arsenals, by beauteous Dardanelles;
And some are in the caravan to Mecca's sandy dells.
The maid that Bandon gallant sought is chosen for the Dey:
She's safe - he's dead - she stabbed him in the Midst of his serai;*
And when, to die a death of fire, that noble maid they bore,
She only smiled - O'Driscoll's child - she thought of Baltimore.,

From The Sack of Baltimore by Thomas Davis

Book about Pirate utopias I was reading:
Pirate Utopias: Moorish Corsairs & European Renegadoes Revised, Subsequent Edition by Peter Lamborn Wilson

There are more info in the book about Sale but some people find writer not very trustworthy as historian so I left commentaries by him for people interested.

Another Pirate nation suggested on forums:
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...very-unique-pirate-republic-of-nassau.999734/

 

[withche.07]

From Pirate to Admiral: The Tale of Barbarossa

The island of Lésbos, in the Aegean Sea, is now part of Greece, but between 1462 and 1912, it lay under Turkish dominion. During the 1470s Lésbos was the birthplace of one of the Ottoman Empire’s greatest heroes. The Mediterranean pirate who would ultimately be remembered as Barbarossa (Italian for “Redbeard”) went by many names during his career: Khiḍr, Hayreddin Pasha, the “Pirate of Algiers,” and even the “King of the Sea,” but the name Barbarossa began as an appellation for him and his brother ʿArūj (or Oruç)—the Barbarossa brothers.

The Barbarossa brothers were already experienced pirates in the Mediterranean when Spaincompleted its conquest of Granada in 1492, defeating the last vestige of Islamic rule in the Iberian Peninsula, and Muslim immigrants from the region took refuge in North Africa. By 1505 the Spanish and the Portuguese were looking to make territorial gains in North Africa, and they began to attack coastal cities. Enraged by these attacks on fellow Muslims, Khiḍr and ʿArūj served as privateers under the direction of Korkud (one of the sons of the Ottoman sultan Bayezid II) to disrupt Spanish and Portuguese shipping in the western Mediterranean. The sultan’s death in 1512, however, spawned a succession fight between his sons Ahmed and Selim. Selim defeated Ahmed and began a purge of Ahmed’s supporters. Selim was also distrustful of Korkud, and he executed him. In response, the Barbarossa brothers fled to North Africa to separate themselves from a government that likely would have been hostile to them, and they joined the region’s various kingdoms in their struggles against Spain.


Over the next three years, the Barbarossa brothers rose in prominence among the North African communities and preyed on Spanish and Portuguese shipping as independent corsairs. In 1516, forces under the brothers’ command attacked Algiers, and the city fell to ʿArūj. The Ottomans recognized this development as an opportunity to expand their influence in North Africa, and they offered their funding and political support to the brothers (which allowed ʿArūj and Khiḍr to consolidate their gains). The Ottomans then offered the nominal titles of governor of Algiers to ʿArūj and chief sea governor of the western Mediterranean to Khiḍr, but the brothers were not yet full-fledged subjects of the Ottoman Empire.

ʿArūj died battling the Spanish in 1518, and the Spanish recaptured Algiers the following year. During this period, Khiḍr (now known as Hayreddin) assumed the title Barbarossa and stepped up to continue the fight, for which he sought help from the Ottomans. Although Algiers changed hands several times over the next decade, the region it controlled became known as the Regency of Algiers, the first corsair state, which was autonomous but grew more and more dependent upon the Ottoman military for protection over time. The Ottomans would later use Algiers as their primary base of operations in the western Mediterranean.

Barbarossa’s formal association with the Ottomans grew over the same period. Süleyman the Magnificent, who had become sultan after Selim’s death, captured Rhodes in 1522 and installed Barbarossa as the beylerbeyi (governor). After Barbarossa and his forces captured Tunis in 1531, Süleyman made him the grand admiral (kapudan pasha) of the Ottoman Empire, and he served as admiral in chief of the Ottoman navy.

Perhaps Barbarossa’s most famous battle was his victory at Preveza (in Greece) in 1538 over a combined fleet with elements from Venice, Genoa, Spain, Portugal, Malta, and the Papal States. The key to his victory was his use of galleys instead of sailing ships. Because galleys were driven by oars and thus did not depend on the wind, they were more maneuverable and reliable on the sides of bays and islands shielded from the wind than sailing ships were. Barbarossa defeated the combined force by using only 122 galleys against 300 sailing ships. His victory opened Tripoli and the eastern Mediterranean to Ottoman rule. After Barbarossa led additional military campaigns, including one in which he assisted the French against the
Habsburgs in 1543 and 1544, he died in Constantinople in 1546.

Nice article about Barbarossa: https://www.britannica.com/story/from-pirate-to-admiral-the-tale-of-barbarossa

 

[withche.07]

Quotes:

After 1627 Salé became the home of the republic of Bou Regreg and the base for the Barbary pirates (or corsairs) known in the West as the “Sallee Rovers.”
https://www.britannica.com/place/Sale-Morocco

After 1609 the unified community of Rabat-Salé became the home of large numbers of Andalusian Moors who had been driven from Spain and, later, of the so-called Sallee Rovers, the most dreaded of the Barbary pirates (also known as corsairs).
https://www.britannica.com/place/Rabat

With the arrival of powerful Moorish bands in Rabat and Tétouan (1609), Morocco became a new centre for the pirates ..
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Barbary-pirate

 

[withche.07]

Sayyida al Hurra, Islamic pirate queen

More info:
http://www.amazingwomeninhistory.com/sayyida-al-hurra-islamic-pirate-queen/
http://www.thewayofthepirates.com/famous-pirates/sayyida-al-hurra/
http://www.thathistorynerd.com/2018/01/damn-girl-sayyida-al-hurra.html
http://www.thewayofthepirates.com/famous-pirates/sayyida-al-hurra/
Sayyida al Hurra was one of the most famous female pirates of all time and a very important figure in the modern age of western Islam. She operated in the western Mediterranean during the height of the Corsair age, allying herself with the famous Turkish pirate captain and corsair Barbarossa of Algiers. She also managed to retain the title of the queen after her husband died, which made her last queen in the history of Islam who managed to rule dependently.

Some historians speculate that she was accepted as a female ruler by the other Muslims because of the strong tradition of female leaders from her homeland of Andalusia, but others believe that she was respected simply because of her successful abilities as the pirate leader.


Other famous Barbary corsairs

• Kemal Reis (c. 1451–1511)
• Gedik Ahmed Pasha (died 1482)
• Sinan Reis (died 1546)
• Piri Reis (died 1554 or 1555)
• Turgut Reis (1485–1565)
• Sinan Pasha (died 1553)
• Kurtoğlu Muslihiddin Reis (1487–c. 1535)
• Kurtoğlu Hızır Reis
• Salih Reis (c. 1488–1568)
• Seydi Ali Reis (1498–1563)
• Piyale Pasha (c. 1515–1578)
• Raïs Hamidou (1773–1815)
• Uluç Ali Reis (1519–1587)
• Ali Bitchin (c. 1560–1645)
• Simon de Danser or Simon Reis (c. 1579–c. 1611)
• Salomo de Veenboer or Sulayman Reis (died 1620)
• Murat Reis the Elder (c. 1534–1638)
• Murat Reis the Younger (c. 1570–after 1641)

 

[Keyboard Warrior]

Sayyida al Hurra, Islamic pirate queen

nice pirate tits

anyway @Trin Tragula i have an idea, how about ottomans can create OPM pirate states like venice does as trading cities? it would be cool. you know no one wants to do conquer northern africa missions in ottoman mission tree because it is too boring and northern africa are consist of useless provinces for ottomans. but if we could create a pirate state in moor i would definitely do it! think about that they were robbing/stealing/sinking spanish treasure ships, ohhhhhhhhhhh.

 

[withche.07]

Actually similar "trading city" suggestion may work out well.

I can reimagine it as Corsair state: (will be republic with elections)
-One-province-minor out of your provinces (Fixed to northern africa coastal provinces).
-Unique to Ottoman government or possibly Maghrebi culture states:
-It will be independent under its own tag as "corsair state", not as vassal
-But becomes a part of potential corsair league (limited in number possibly maximum 2)
-AI Corsair state won't expand
-It will be under whole new league with their ruler (similar to trade leagues)
-Factions may be different (Moor immigrants etc)
-It will have unique modifers

Possible modifiers (4 can be chosen from this list):
(Mostly naval modifiers)

galley_cost & or galley_power
capture_ship_chance
naval_morale
leader_naval_manuever & or leader_naval_fire & or leader_naval_shock
blockade_efficiency
global_sailors & or sailors_recovery_speed
global_naval_engagement_modifier

may_perform_slave_raid (unique one)

Maybe even unique modiers about coastal raid buffs etc.

Republic of Sale to be included as unique one to create as it may get unique events.

 

[_Shak]

I love this idea. Specially since so many people have asked repeatedly for more interesting naval play over the years.

I think in general naval does need some work, but something like this would be just awesome.

 

[withche.07]

Thank you. These pirates were really great at naval warfare with galleys and stealing ships.

Another renegado Siemen Danziger/Zymen Danseker/Simon de Danser (Dutch)
AKA Simon Reis, Deli Reis (Captain Crazy) and Deli Kaptan

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zymen_Danseker

Danseker and the English pirate John Ward were the two most prominent renegades operating in the Barbary coast during the early 17th century. Both were said to command squadrons in Algiers and Tunis that were equal to their European counterparts, and, as allies, together represented a formidable naval power (much as had Aruj and Hayreddin Barbarossa in the previous century). Later in his Barbary career, Danseker became known by the Turkish epithet Simon Re'is.

Commanding a vast squadron made up of English and Turks while in the service of Algiers, Danziger captured more than 40 ships in a two-year period after "turning Turk" and was stopped only by his capture and execution in 1611. Both men are featured prominently in Kitab al-Munis fi Akhbar Ifriqiya wa Tunis written by Tunisian writer and historian Ibn Abi Dinar.

It is unclear why he became a corsair. He was made welcome as an enemy of the Spaniards"' and, within a year of his arrival, became one of the taife reisi's leading captains. Often bringing Spanish prizes and prisoners to Algiers, due to his exploits he became known under the names Simon Re'is, Deli-Reis (Captain Crazy) and Deli Kapitan among the people on the Barbary coast and the Turks. He incorporated captured ships into his fleet, and was supplied by Algiers with men and the use of their shipyards. He was also the first to lead the Algiers out of the Straits of Gibraltar, the farthest distance any had ever successfully navigated, and traveled as far as Iceland. Iceland would later be attacked by Barbary corsairs in 1616. Simon took at least forty ships and sank many of them during the three years that followed. After three more years of pirating, he had become quite rich and lived in an opulent palace. Simon The Dancer attacked ships of any nation, making trading in the Mediterranean Sea increasingly difficult for every nation. Many nations therefore looked for ways to stop his attacks (by counterattack, bribes for safe-passage or employing him as a privateer in their navy).

 

[Keyboard Warrior]

and these states can have some renegade rulers who wants to get revenge from their birth countries. if you have a pirate leader with anglican english origin he could attack english ships in carribeans or sack britain's coastlines like the examples in history

 

[Knight of the Black Rose]

@Trin Tragula, there is turkish hater here who thumb down every single thing about ottos lol.
interestingly he doesnt thumb down other guy in the thread who support the OP.

as the timing you see he doesnt even read just spamming his hate.

i think he needs an ottoman slap