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metalsie

metalsie

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What I always thought about Eu3 is how did the settlement policy worked? Do you sent a bulk of your people to one city to stay there, or do you move out the original inhabitants and repopulate. I think the player should be given the option how to choose their settlement policy. If this is added players can possibly "repopulate" places with different cultures and create a new homeland. For instance, I pick Naples and invade Tunis. Then I start moving the original inhabitants to Mameluke and to Algiers and eventually I populate the place with Italians which becomes a core or I send in Italians into Tunis without displacing the original inhabitants and a new ethnic identity rises in Tunis as population mixes with each other. A mix of Italian and Arab. If I keep sending more Italians then Arabic element in that sub-culture is assimilated and the place becomes wholly Italian which then becomes a core. Displacing the population though should have disadvantages, first since the displaced people took their belongings with them, the economy and the growth of the region should be minimal until it stabilizes itself with the increase of population in time. Also it can give casus belli to the nearby same-culture group nations on that territory because of the displaced inhabitants. The disadvantages of slowly integrating the natives could be higher revolt risk and less taxes since the locals don't want to get integrated. The integration could become faster if the locals are the same religion as the "colonizers" and could reduce the revolt risk and economic handicap it gives.

What I saw in this forums is people are too sensitive about "Ethnic Cleansing" or "Genocide" just for the sake of political correctness in a Computer Game while ignoring that these things DID happen in those times. My plan is much less violent and is really accurate historically (For Ottomans at least but as I said the player does have the choice there to what to do)
 
metalsie said:
What I always thought about Eu3 is how did the settlement policy worked? Do you sent a bulk of your people to one city to stay there, or do you move out the original inhabitants and repopulate. I think the player should be given the option how to choose their settlement policy. If this is added players can possibly "repopulate" places with different cultures and create a new homeland. For instance, I pick Naples and invade Tunis. Then I start moving the original inhabitants to Mameluke and to Algiers and eventually I populate the place with Italians which becomes a core or I send in Italians into Tunis without displacing the original inhabitants and a new ethnic identity rises in Tunis as population mixes with each other. A mix of Italian and Arab. If I keep sending more Italians then Arabic element in that sub-culture is assimilated and the place becomes wholly Italian which then becomes a core. Displacing the population though should have disadvantages, first since the displaced people took their belongings with them, the economy and the growth of the region should be minimal until it stabilizes itself with the increase of population in time. Also it can give casus belli to the nearby same-culture group nations on that territory because of the displaced inhabitants. The disadvantages of slowly integrating the natives could be higher revolt risk and less taxes since the locals don't want to get integrated. The integration could become faster if the locals are the same religion as the "colonizers" and could reduce the revolt risk and economic handicap it gives.

What I saw in this forums is people are too sensitive about "Ethnic Cleansing" or "Genocide" just for the sake of political correctness in a Computer Game while ignoring that these things DID happen in those times. My plan is much less violent and is really accurate historically (For Ottomans at least but as I said the player does have the choice there to what to do)
Click to expand...

Did stuff like that ever actually happen in history though?
 
Tornadoli said:
Did stuff like that ever actually happen in history though?
Click to expand...
Pretty much everywhere, but may be somewhat later.

There were interesting manipulations in Russia, with it`s serfs, i guess in US the colonisers mowed the natives, and the history of 19 and 20 century Europe is very well know, with reseteling millions of people.

Not sure, though that happened significantry in the timeframe, though.
 
Paradox doesn't support the inclusion of pogroms, genocide, similar methods of homogenisation. Settlement Policy is vague, but it says that your culture is migrating there a lot, draw your own conclusions from that.

They never have supported these kinds of things, and I doubt they ever will. If you upload a mod that has these things, it'll be taken down.

Historically, it probably did happen. But, the penalties historically were greater than penalties a game can recreate. In addition, Paradox avoids other historical things; using the Nazi flag in HOI is one of the more well known ones. With a generic "resettle foreign peoples" and "exterminate X culture," you could roleplay a specific nation and embark on a quest against a specific culture, which I believe is a very unwanted thing in a lot of European countries
 
skauld said:
Paradox doesn't support the inclusion of pogroms, genocide, similar methods of homogenisation. Settlement Policy is vague, but it says that your culture is migrating there a lot, draw your own conclusions from that.

They never have supported these kinds of things, and I doubt they ever will. If you upload a mod that has these things, it'll be taken down.

Historically, it probably did happen. But, the penalties historically were greater than penalties a game can recreate. In addition, Paradox avoids other historical things; using the Nazi flag in HOI is one of the more well known ones. With a generic "resettle foreign peoples" and "exterminate X culture," you could roleplay a specific nation and embark on a quest against a specific culture, which I believe is a very unwanted thing in a lot of European countries
Click to expand...

My Suggestion is much lighter than "Genocide" and more Historic. As I said if you remove such a simple and such a big thing from a game just for political correctness it just ruins the entire feeling. Its like releasing a football game but only with mixed gender teams to not be "sexist". I mean its just stupid to not the grant the players these choices because you are uncomfortable with it.
 
skauld said:
Paradox doesn't support the inclusion of pogroms, genocide, similar methods of homogenisation. Settlement Policy is vague, but it says that your culture is migrating there a lot, draw your own conclusions from that.

They never have supported these kinds of things, and I doubt they ever will. If you upload a mod that has these things, it'll be taken down.

Historically, it probably did happen. But, the penalties historically were greater than penalties a game can recreate. In addition, Paradox avoids other historical things; using the Nazi flag in HOI is one of the more well known ones. With a generic "resettle foreign peoples" and "exterminate X culture," you could roleplay a specific nation and embark on a quest against a specific culture, which I believe is a very unwanted thing in a lot of European countries
Click to expand...
Those that do not know history, are doomed to repeat it.

AS for the penalties, the only real penalty wan not having those population.
 
I suppose the easiest method would be to designate particular provinces as 'plantations' (to use the English term) - into which the player can look to attract a particular culture. There would be an associated revolt risk of course...

Yes, we are all squeamish about modelling genocide (and rightly so) but the OP's point about modelling settlement policy doesn't mean giving the player the chance to 'wipe out the natives'

On a related note I like the concept of hybrid cultures such as the Italo-Arabs suggested above...
 
Tornadoli said:
Did stuff like that ever actually happen in history though?
Click to expand...

As soon as the reconquista was finished in 1492 in present Spain, all none catholic people (ie jews & muslims) were asked either to convert or to leave. According to some spanish archieves, tens of thousands had to leave to north africa with nothing but few personal things. Catholic inquisition tribunals were instituted to make sure that those who stayed were not practicing their original religion in private. Archieves state that thousands of people was burned alife (because they were considered as heretic!) and their properties were seized by the spanish catholic church. This policy lasted for centuries and was abolished when Napoleon set his brother on the throne of Spain in early 1800s.

I though completely support Paradox when they say they don't want to include such policies in the gameplay.
 
JoeIsGreat said:
They also failed. The colonists were never a majority in any province until post-independence when they all fled to Ulster.
Click to expand...

Well they were a majority in Ulster.

Most of the Ulster protestants are Ulster Scots, whereas in the other provinces they were Anglo-Irish, after independence, most of the Anglo-Irish went back to England, they didn't go to Ulster.
 
1alexey said:
Those that do not know history, are doomed to repeat it.
Click to expand...

I hope you're not claiming that not including crimes like these in a video game is on the same scale as trying to whitewash these actions from history. Paradox is fully aware of it, which is one of the reasons they do not want it in their game. It serves no purpose.
 
I wouldn't consider the Plantations of Ulster to be some kind of genocide. It was just a colonisation, much like what occured in North America. British came in, and pushed native Irish out.
 
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