Advice on how to Invade Japan with no navy.

[Sunforged General]

I am playing a Chinese Empire playthrough, All I have left to do is invade Japan itself and end the war, but US for some reason has not gone to war with Japan, even though its 1948. Japans navy is mainly intact. While as China I have no navy. I have made advanced naval bombers with heavy torpedos, but even with 200 of them so far and air superiority the naval invasion sea supremacy thing won't go above 1%. I need it to be at 50%. Building a navy big enough would take decades. Can this be done with naval bombers alone? I have also considered paratroopers but not sure if the naval bombers could protect the convoys for supply to them and reinforcements. Any advice on how to take Japan down?

 

[General Tao]

You won't get naval supremacy with naval bombers alone, you need some ships, ideally capital ships.

Paratroopers are a good idea, although by end game of '48 you are gonna struggle with paradropping if Japan still has a high division count.

It's worth a try though, paradrop a port, support it with a ton of CAS, and have some regular infantry and tanks ready to rush over to secure the landing. Yes - you're going to get convoy raided, but only by subs, and the AI never utilises them to full devastating effect. You should be fine. Send some cheap infantry first to bait the subs, then your tanks/proper divisions.

 

[stormsand9]

You're gonna have to build ships. There's a reason the Chinese Communists couldn't invade Taiwan at the end of the Chinese civil war, the nationalists took all the boats with them when they fled to Taiwan.

Your options, assuming you own Man the Guns are: 1. Spam out and build early heavy ship hulls with basic fire control, level 1 engines, and 1 level 1 heavy gun and build them en masse to generate naval supremacy. You should also build some destroyers or cruisers that can lay mines to double your naval supremacy projection.

2. Invade another country and take their fleet in the peace conference (if you own BBA)

3. Attain air supremacy and launch an absolutely massive paradrop invasion.

Whatever you choose, if you've been building alot of naval bombers your convoys will be defended by the naval bombers, AI doesn't raid with Capital ships or screens, just Submarines and those will get blown up quick by naval bombers.

 

[Umbosch]

I don't know enough over the assertiveness path. I play to 99% obedience path. But i can understand some of your problems.

Navy: Is it a big problem then Manchukuo start without naval tech and dockyards. USA and Japan give only 2 with event. Which side have you choose? Your problem is that Japan has a oil problem and his fleets stay most time in the ports. But is enough to hold the naval surpeamcy. Phillipines and Dutch India are normaly his oilfields. But it lokks that they was never attack. So i think DD spam can not be an option? Maybe Port bombing or Airlanding?

In my games i start early to build DD T1 and later T2. I need them for invasion, then the japanese fleet stay most time in "my ports" and make nothing. Later i build in my actually game CA. In early games i have build and finish 1944 two "Man o War" BC. But the allies have bomb then every time to much.

USA: No idea if the USA path more helpfull for you. But it looks that Japan not attack the Philipines. Indochina also. But there is in my memory no trigger that Indocina is important for the Philipines. The attack start most time antum 1942.

 

[Sunforged General]

You won't get naval supremacy with naval bombers alone, you need some ships, ideally capital ships.

Paratroopers are a good idea, although by end game of '48 you are gonna struggle with paradropping if Japan still has a high division count.

It's worth a try though, paradrop a port, support it with a ton of CAS, and have some regular infantry and tanks ready to rush over to secure the landing. Yes - you're going to get convoy raided, but only by subs, and the AI never utilises them to full devastating effect. You should be fine. Send some cheap infantry first to bait the subs, then your tanks/proper divisions.

Is it possible to nuke a country into surrender without holding any of their major cities? I could get nuclear weapons in a reasonable timeframe, much faster than ships, Paratroopers will be my next backup plan but I fear Japan has built up a lot of divisions

 

[Umbosch]

It's worth a try though, paradrop a port, support it with a ton of CAS, and have some regular infantry and tanks ready to rush over to secure the landing. Yes - you're going to get convoy raided, but only by subs, and the AI never utilises them to full devastating effect. You should be fine. Send some cheap infantry first to bait the subs, then your tanks/proper divisions.

But is it important not only attack the harbour. When they loose they are drowning. Can be helpfull some of them attack a neighbourfield for the retreat. I think first target should be taiwan. Then Okinawa. To reduce his supremacy through coastprovinces. And then you can use is at springboard to Kyushu. Alternate you attack Hokkaido in the north. It's not much but better as nothing to use spys to rise up your naval supreamcy.

 

[Firefly11_11]

Radars and nav bombers shred subs in seconds. So if you manage to paradrop a port, you should be able to sail the rest of your army across.

 

[Nikolai II]

Building a navy big enough would take decades. Can this be done with naval bombers alone?

Not naval bombers alone - but with enough naval bombers you can send out a really small navy and use it to force the Japanese to come out and stop it from achieving supremacy, which lets your bombers start actually killing their navy. (You should also have some of your navals doing port strikes on Japan, so their navy can't hide in there and pretend to be on strike force duty).

If you do the above, you should be getting enough naval superiority moments to fire off an invasion within a month or two. Just have the order activated and they'll move at first opportunity. (Bring portable harbors as well and you can invade anywhere and take the ports after landing)

 

[General Tao]

Is it possible to nuke a country into surrender without holding any of their major cities? I could get nuclear weapons in a reasonable timeframe, much faster than ships, Paratroopers will be my next backup plan but I fear Japan has built up a lot of divisions

Japan has a unique surrender condition where you get their navy under 30 ships, and then execute two nuclear strikes. I've never triggered it because virtually eliminating a nation's navy is actually really hard to do given the way the naval game works - they sit in ports and I've never found port striking on vanilla to be effective.

But is it important not only attack the harbour.

Before paratroopers had their org damage bug fixed, successive paradrops where the most effective breakthrough unit in the game, even moreso than nukes I would argue. I think now it is correctly limited to a single instance of org damage, paradropping just the port is probably too risky as you say....although at least on the port they can still retreat I believe?

 

[Umbosch]

I think now it is correctly limited to a single instance of org damage, paradropping just the port is probably too risky as you say....although at least on the port they can still retreat I believe?

I had to learn it the hard way when I thought why bother with the Norwegian Navy, I would give the "green devil" of Germany another chance and jump further north via Oslo to Trondheim. We bring Blitzkrieg to a new level: lightning ice. Sounded better to me than hiking through the snow-covered mountains with my mountain fighters or having my Marines sunk by the Thommys in the fjords. Unfortunately, my paratroopers were already destroyed in the cold waters of Oslo. I was shocked when my first two special units dissolved and I couldn't even stop.

Not even the Germans were as stupid as me. But i have think maybe they come back with convoys. I remember i have look if there enough before i start the mission.

 

[Sunforged General]

I don't know enough over the assertiveness path. I play to 99% obedience path. But i can understand some of your problems.

Navy: Is it a big problem then Manchukuo start without naval tech and dockyards. USA and Japan give only 2 with event. Which side have you choose? Your problem is that Japan has a oil problem and his fleets stay most time in the ports. But is enough to hold the naval surpeamcy. Phillipines and Dutch India are normaly his oilfields. But it lokks that they was never attack. So i think DD spam can not be an option? Maybe Port bombing or Airlanding?

In my games i start early to build DD T1 and later T2. I need them for invasion, then the japanese fleet stay most time in "my ports" and make nothing. Later i build in my actually game CA. In early games i have build and finish 1944 two "Man o War" BC. But the allies have bomb then every time to much.

USA: No idea if the USA path more helpfull for you. But it looks that Japan not attack the Philipines. Indochina also. But there is in my memory no trigger that Indocina is important for the Philipines. The attack start most time antum 1942.

I went with Japan on the naval national focus (which is ironic because I went to war with them soon after) but it only granted 2 dockyards. I forgot I would need a navy at some point so i focused on army and air force up until now lol.

 

[Umbosch]

I went with Japan on the naval national focus (which is ironic because I went to war with them soon after) but it only granted 2 dockyards. I forgot I would need a navy at some point so i focused on army and air force up until now lol.

USA give also 2 dockyards, DD and cruiser techbonus, air mios, 500 airunits from the market and better unitlimit for marine. Ther carrier mission is bugged = china only. So USA can be a good alternate. With assertiveness you have no problems to finish the path before Japan attack the Philipins. With luck the USA support your war. But i think land lease will not reach your harbours through the japanese sea.

Japan give two dockyards, DD and submarine techbonus = for what? A better limit for marines and navalbomber techbonus. But i think you must finish it before you attack Japan. Or the path is close. When the china war begins they support you with land lease. But convoys but make it to a problem.

England never testet. China was faster or maybe my convoy problem.

France is only helpfull with land lease from march 1939 until the fall of paris. But it comes over the landway. You can get the mountain tech bonus and when you have mountain tech I finish a mountain template for free. also a better mountain unitlimit. But you can get all this things also from Russia.

Russia give the same how france. with luck you can get the russian general. First complete the focus get him. the tank mio looks better for aisa as the german. The volunteers focus are only for china. Land lease come to late and prefered China first.

Germany. looks good but i don't know... Falkenhausen is only until 41/ 42 as advisor. Every one get Falkenhausen when they have the focus before. The tank mio is not usefull in my opinion. Who use heavy tanks in this area where provinces have 2-4 negativ effects and supply probs everywhere? Germany is the biggest land lease drama queen. You can get a lot and more as once. But they cancel fast when they notice that other do the same. Need a lot of micro management. They prefered China first also.


It will be intresting which focus has Japan choose and finish: secure china, strike south doctrine and scure the philipines? Is there a ai mechanic that Japan choose other things when the human player choose assertiveness?

 

[blahmaster6k]

I am playing a Chinese Empire playthrough, All I have left to do is invade Japan itself and end the war, but US for some reason has not gone to war with Japan, even though its 1948. Japans navy is mainly intact. While as China I have no navy. I have made advanced naval bombers with heavy torpedos, but even with 200 of them so far and air superiority the naval invasion sea supremacy thing won't go above 1%. I need it to be at 50%. Building a navy big enough would take decades. Can this be done with naval bombers alone? I have also considered paratroopers but not sure if the naval bombers could protect the convoys for supply to them and reinforcements. Any advice on how to take Japan down? View attachment 1250938

Supply isn't going to be a problem, local supply should be plenty for your troops. It's possible even to land with paratroopers in Japan from Korea as China in 1937-9. If you can get a foothold, the Japanese AI won't have enough submarines to stop your troops from moving into Japan. The AI only raids with subs, so you don't have to worry about their surface fleet at all. I suggest heavy fighters and medium CAS to get solid air efficiency for paradrops, or since it's 1948 just good 1940/44/45 small fighters with fuel tanks should be enough, or supersonic jets/mothership aircraft.

I'm genuinely surprised Japan still exists in 1948 though, especially after being kicked out of China. Usually the AI USA can clean them up pretty easily.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

You won't get naval supremacy with naval bombers alone, you need some ships, ideally capital ships.

this is technically true, but practically nav + a couple subs is sufficient. once you do enough naval bombing/port strikes, ai will occasionally drop superiority and invasions which are activated + ready will go through. 50-100 naval supremacy is still green waters against 0.

another way to successfully invade japan is to request access from the allies, ship stuff into australia --> pacific islands --> invade eastern japan, as they sometimes drop superiority off their east coast as well even w/o bombing them/forcing repairs.

as for actually landing...properly built marine divisions can reinforce meme ai off of ports regardless of div count, and you can land adjacent as well + micro from there. if they don't have 100s of divisions on home islands, you won't even need to do this much. but if they do, then you want some strong amphibious landing capability. 3k-5k+ soft attack into the port province is almost always good enough in sp.

 

[Kanitatlan]

When I invade Japan without naval superiority it is usually as the Soviets but the same approach should be viable. The main issue on the naval front is to reach a position where you have enough capability to prevent Japan from blockading further transport of supplies and units by sea. This means as many naval bombers as you can manage and enough convoys that you won't run out. I then start an invasion with paratroops. If you are relatively weak then the objective is to take a foothold with paratroops and then reinforce which means taking an area you can defend with what may potentially be a rather weak force. Typically I paradrop Hokkaido, paretly due to range issues, because I can protect it from japanese counter-attack. As soon as you land you will need to start building one or two ports because there aren't any. You want to make sure your naval supply route only crosses one sea zone so you can concentrate your counter-measures and keep it short. For China, if going the paratroop route you are probably ought to look at landing on Kyushu but for defensibility you could try Shikoku. The key is to get on shore and then send more troops. You may need to mess around a bit so that you don't fight your major battles across the straights rather than normal land battle but once you are ashore and have superior army it is just a matter of time. Naval blockades are ridiculously weak in HOI4 as there is no simulation of a close blockade of ports which means that naval power doesn't work very effectively to cause a failure of an already successful landing.

 

[Crecer13]

When I invade Japan without naval superiority it is usually as the Soviets but the same approach should be viable. The main issue on the naval front is to reach a position where you have enough capability to prevent Japan from blockading further transport of supplies and units by sea. This means as many naval bombers as you can manage and enough convoys that you won't run out. I then start an invasion with paratroops. If you are relatively weak then the objective is to take a foothold with paratroops and then reinforce which means taking an area you can defend with what may potentially be a rather weak force. Typically I paradrop Hokkaido, paretly due to range issues, because I can protect it from japanese counter-attack. As soon as you land you will need to start building one or two ports because there aren't any. You want to make sure your naval supply route only crosses one sea zone so you can concentrate your counter-measures and keep it short. For China, if going the paratroop route you are probably ought to look at landing on Kyushu but for defensibility you could try Shikoku. The key is to get on shore and then send more troops. You may need to mess around a bit so that you don't fight your major battles across the straights rather than normal land battle but once you are ashore and have superior army it is just a matter of time. Naval blockades are ridiculously weak in HOI4 as there is no simulation of a close blockade of ports which means that naval power doesn't work very effectively to cause a failure of an already successful landing.

When I play for the USSR and invade Japan, it also happens with paratroopers. I throw paratroopers not to Hokkaido but to Aomori where there is a port nearby that will supply my troops, maybe transfer tank troops. But usually 24 parachute divisions are enough to capture all of Japan. And it's very cool when you capture Tokyo, an event occurs: Soviet VDV capture the Emperor's Palace.