-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Everything will be Aberrated.
If you study some of the threads you will find that Incompetant has plans for the Zanj. Northern Africa is already Aberrated, but will be worked over again. Really, the project is just waiting for someone to step up to the mark and be the creative lead.
Me, I'm finishing up the New World before moving on the the changes for Brittany, Savoy, Burgundy and Occitan.
If you study some of the threads you will find that Incompetant has plans for the Zanj. Northern Africa is already Aberrated, but will be worked over again. Really, the project is just waiting for someone to step up to the mark and be the creative lead.
Me, I'm finishing up the New World before moving on the the changes for Brittany, Savoy, Burgundy and Occitan.
About Africa, what about if the empire of Mali had survived an kept on being the dominant force in West Africa.
yourworstnightm said:
That could certainly work, though it would change Cordoba's whole 'mastering the dark continent' thing - I think they'd be somewhat more reluctant to take on a firmly entrenched Islamic empire.
Historically Songhai more or less took off where Mali left off. Perhaps instead, we could have Mali collapsing in a more chaotic fashion, so that West Africa is a mess of small states, some Muslim and others Pagan.
This would leave Kongo and Benin as the main powers in the region (and we can certainly boost Kongo a bit by giving them some coast!) However, European and other colonial powers would soon play a role as well. Here Kongo has an advantage over Benin, as a) it's more isolated and difficult to invade, b) it's less important to the slave trade, so less likely to be targetted by the Europeans. I'm thinking Benin could do well at first, spreading their influence over the weak states to the west, but then when the Europeans arrive Benin is weakened to the point where Kongo can mount a serious challenge. Like the American pagans though, Kongo and Benin would have to play a careful game to keep up against the technologically superior outsiders.
West Africa is very interesting as far as religion is concerned. The powers could get a choice between paganism (which perhaps develops later into 'Confucian'), Sunni Islam, 'heretical' Islam and some form of Christianity. However, the Christian option would only become available if they came under heavy Christian influence. Historically Portuguese missionaries were extremely successful in Kongo, but the Aberrated Kongo will be more confident in itself and therefore somewhat less easily awed by the Europeans.
Incompetent said:
Mali was never _really_ Moslem though, just influenced by, as evidenced by the vanilla event turning it back into paganism.
Portuguese missionaries did not use violence to whack Kongo, it was more akin to apostles converting scandinavia from paganism to christianity. (From what I have gathered). I.e. luck in managing to convert the leader then he makes his underlings follow.
Nikolai II said:
I know they didn't. I was thinking it'd be an option if they're friends with Christian countries, but not if the Christians are indifferent or hostile. Christians may get events to make friends as well, as they might decide it's the best way to get influence.
Incompetent said:
My point was more along "It wasn't state mission - it was more about individual initiatives" so as long as any good catholic has found them they could convert. Or not, since this is another world with another future as well as history. I'd like to see more discussions about gameplay - history (and future history) can be made to fit the fact once it is known what is wanted?
The reason why I brought up Mali was because I thought i would be fun with an west african empire able to scare off european powers, doesn't have to be Mali, it could also be a new empire that start to rise in the 1400s on the ruins of the lost Mali empire, even more fun, it could be pagan, and really piss Cordoba up, do I see long military campaigns in the joungle here??? (Especially if the pagan empire has gobbled up a lot of moslem minors).
Also, how about a more fragmented East Africa? The area around Zanzibar, for example (the Swahili coast) could be fragmented into a series of 2-3 province states, rather than a single large state as it is in vanilla, with a sea-oriented state built around Mombasa and a land-oriented state trying to drive it into its precious sea, similar to the Maya/Zapotec dynamic... possibly northern Madagascar or Mahe could be their "last stand"....
Sheridan said:
Division into petty states is pretty much historical. 'Zanj' as a country in vanilla is an abstraction. As with all countries, the player represents the 'spirit of the ruling elite' rather than any one person, so it makes sense for a collection of city-states to be playable in this way if they behave similarly. My idea was to continue the abstraction, but make events for Zanj that reflect a) a lack of political unity, b) a common desire to get rich through trade. My Zanjis would be peaceful people, so they'd not be fighting each other too much. The big divergence from history would come later, when foreigners invade: instead of being conquered one by one by Portugal and later Oman, the Zanj states gradually realise they have to work together to defeat the invaders. After that Zanj starts to resemble more of a unified state, although it would still be fairly loosely held together.
Didn't anyone think that Zheng He (who travelled to Africa) could bring Confucianism there?
Incompetent said:Unlikely, given that he was a Muslim
Oh, sorry. I didn't know that.
But expansion of the Ethiopian Coptic Church is still possible, isn't it?
Might be, but the we have to diminish the arab influences, but hey, this is not called aberrarion for nothing.
yourworstnightm said:
Yes, but the Ethiopians aren't Arabs. Amhara language belongs to the Kushic (not Semitic) group.
But if you resist anyway, we can think about other possiblities...
I never said the ethiopians were arabs, I said that we have to diminish arab influences on the region to make an expanding ethiopian empire happen. However since there are palns for Zanj I suspect there will be no such thing. however I like a scenario where an christian Ethiopia would crusade against moslem neighbours.
I thought about "mixing it" by splitting Zanj with a Shi'ite state in the South, maybe centred on Sofala...
Very possibly. I was theorizing a nautical state centered on Mombasa as one faction; Sofala could be their early adversaries and rather land-focused....