I am wondering how Poland will be split up and if we could get a screenshot of Poland and the rest of Central/Eastern Europe...
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I think the Hungarian aar has the best screenie of Poland. If i remember correctly theres one of eastern europe that you can just make out the Polish eagle in the bottom left corner.
There is no Poland. It is divided between the Pagans, the Germans and the Russians as it always was. Poland is a 20th century creation of British Imperialists. 
AlexanderG said:There is no Poland. It is divided between the Pagans, the Germans and the Russians as it always was. Poland is a 20th century creation of British Imperialists.
Very funny
As well as Spain was always divided between Basques, Catalonians, Castilians, Arabs and is a creation of Francisco Franco.
you are riggggghtkristoff said:Very funny
Kristoff,
That comparison is a bit daft, as Spain was, in fact, always divided between Basques, Catalonians, Castilians and Arabs, and as a nation state is at the very least the product of the Civil War, if not (unpleasently) Franco himself.
Bah. "Nations." I'll be very disappointed if, at the end, a hands-off game produces countries even remotely resembling Poland, France, Spain, England (there here it's a little less disappointing), etc., much less such modern fictions as "Austria."
That comparison is a bit daft, as Spain was, in fact, always divided between Basques, Catalonians, Castilians and Arabs, and as a nation state is at the very least the product of the Civil War, if not (unpleasently) Franco himself.
Bah. "Nations." I'll be very disappointed if, at the end, a hands-off game produces countries even remotely resembling Poland, France, Spain, England (there here it's a little less disappointing), etc., much less such modern fictions as "Austria."
HolisticGod said:Kristoff,
That comparison is a bit daft, as Spain was, in fact, always divided between Basques, Catalonians, Castilians and Arabs, and as a nation state is at the very least the product of the Civil War, if not (unpleasently) Franco himself.
QUOTE]
Well, that's what I exactly ment. Thanx for support, HolisticGod.
I didn't want to be harsh, I'm just not going to read peacefully such things about my country. There are so many false and stupid myths about Poland out there, that you have to react. Poland was fully independent for over 900 years since it was estabilished in the X century. Nowadays we have like 2-3% minorities, considering them Germans, Lithuanians, Ukrainians ect. Throughout history we were rather not divided but a dividing party (Poland held to vast territories in today's Ukraine, Lithuania, Belarus). Bah, I'm sure you know it.
Kristoff,
I think it was a joke...
But what I'm saying is that Spain was probably far less homogenous than Poland, and has only been officially "united" since, what? The Restoration after Joseph abdicated? Before that, I think it was still dynastic, binding four seperate, but united, Kingdoms.
Basically, I agree with you, but I don't think that particular comparison serves the point.
At any rate, yes, more screen shots. I still want to see Byzantium up close, and a clip of the Rus would be delightful.
I think it was a joke...
But what I'm saying is that Spain was probably far less homogenous than Poland, and has only been officially "united" since, what? The Restoration after Joseph abdicated? Before that, I think it was still dynastic, binding four seperate, but united, Kingdoms.
Basically, I agree with you, but I don't think that particular comparison serves the point.
At any rate, yes, more screen shots. I still want to see Byzantium up close, and a clip of the Rus would be delightful.
1512 would be the year modern day spain came underone ruler (except for navarre).
kristoff thats not entirely correct
kristoff thats not entirely correct
those terriotys were gained when poland entered a union with lithuania, creating Poland-Lithuania (Rzeczpospolita Oboja Narodów).
Blom,
Under one rule, yes, but in four thrones. Charles V held around forty titles constituting Sovereignty over Spain, and until Felipe II came to power this was not, at least by Catalonians, Basques and the great cities of the south, regarded as a permanent arrangement.
Nation-States are something else entirely. France, for example, became one during the Revolution, Austria and Prussia during the Napoleonic Wars, Russia under Catherine the Great, England perhaps earliest of all under Elizabeth or even after the War of the Roses, Holland in the course of gaining its independence (and even then, only parts of it were truly "national").
I think there's a much stronger argument for, ironically, those countries with weak central governments-meaning weak monarchs-like Poland and England and Scotland and Ireland than the traditional autocracies. Parliaments and Ministries drawn from across a Sovereign's territories had a profoundly unifying affect on their constituents.
Somethin' about gettin' together...
Under one rule, yes, but in four thrones. Charles V held around forty titles constituting Sovereignty over Spain, and until Felipe II came to power this was not, at least by Catalonians, Basques and the great cities of the south, regarded as a permanent arrangement.
Nation-States are something else entirely. France, for example, became one during the Revolution, Austria and Prussia during the Napoleonic Wars, Russia under Catherine the Great, England perhaps earliest of all under Elizabeth or even after the War of the Roses, Holland in the course of gaining its independence (and even then, only parts of it were truly "national").
I think there's a much stronger argument for, ironically, those countries with weak central governments-meaning weak monarchs-like Poland and England and Scotland and Ireland than the traditional autocracies. Parliaments and Ministries drawn from across a Sovereign's territories had a profoundly unifying affect on their constituents.
Somethin' about gettin' together...
AlexanderG said:There is no Poland. It is divided between the Pagans, the Germans and the Russians as it always was. Poland is a 20th century creation of British Imperialists.
I hope that's only joke.
Poland was one of the main powers in the Middle and Eastern Europe during middle ages. From Grunwald battle (1410) till the middle of XVII centuary it was one of the most powerful European states, also.
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Don't worry, he said it was.
I can think of many countries with less legitimacy then Poland.
I can think of many countries with less legitimacy then Poland.
HolisticGod said:
ahhh from everything I've read about nation states France is considered the first nation state and it was considered a nation state years before the revolution. I havent read any work that considers france a non-nation state after the 100 years war. Can you site any works that back up your assurtions that england and not france is the first nation state?
Dzoser said:
Notice the smiley after AlexanderG's statement. Of course it's a joke.
I don't know what's more amusing, Alexander's joke or the amount of people taking him seriously. :rofl:
Really, though, more insulting than myths about Poland is the total ignoring of Lithuania's existence as an equal partner in the Commonwealth.
Really, though, more insulting than myths about Poland is the total ignoring of Lithuania's existence as an equal partner in the Commonwealth.
Belissarius said:
The France of Louis the 14th. He centralized the goverment/power in Paris.
Circa 1660. Although the foundation was built before him by Richelieu. Not that any of this has to do with Poland.
"If you give me six lines written
by the most honest man, I will find
something in them to hang him"
Cardinal Richelieu
TheLotus said:I don't know what's more amusing, Alexander's joke or the amount of people taking him seriously. :rofl:
Really, though, more insulting than myths about Poland is the total ignoring of Lithuania's existence as an equal partner in the Commonwealth.
You're right but ... it wasn't so equal equal