That said, HOI IV has a very weak supply/logistic feature (if you dare to name it supply system at all).
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The new equipment system is an interesting logistics feature though.
Also armchair generals study operations.
Also armchair generals study operations.
Game indeed needs a proper logistic system. Which actually can be done with using the production system. Than you can produce fuel for your army. You can stockpile that fuel and you can use in your invasions. If you don't have enough fuel than your (fuel needed) troops would have big penalties. And they can improve that with adding food, different uniforms for winter - desert (with different bonuses - maluses) vs. They need to add new resources as well. Coal, uranium. Coal and oil can be use for fuel production. Uranium needs for nuclear staff. Now it's just so easy. You can trade oil with soviets and than with that oil you can produce 2000 tanks. Now you can end the trade and attack the soviets, yes you don't have any oil but don't you worry because you can use those thousands of tanks somehow.
Not sure how dead it is though, seem to recall podcat agree the supply system was lacking (I think at PDX Con, though could be a dream I had).
i was wondering how exactly could be fuel implemented? by adding speed modifier to units? like very low speed of oil eating units like 2 km/h and fuel would add 400% factor to basic speed? thus when oil runs out it will massively hinder movement?
It would require the ability to supply fuel to specific units though. So you can decide that the kriegsmarine gets none for its surface ships and the u-boots still get fuel allowing them to operate. Or units assigned to a specific front would get first dibs on fuel.
I find there is no room for discussion: Air Force, Army and Navy consume fuel.
No fuel - no service and your tanks stop in front of Moscow, period!
No fuel - no service and your tanks stop in front of Moscow, period!
As PDX seem to live in a dreamworld most of the time you may be right.
The ability to drive armoured units through central Africa is impossible now in the 21st century. HOi seems happy to let armoured units drive from Khartoum to Liberia with their only port of supply being Port Sudan. Tripoli seems able to produce spares and ammunition for tanks, shells for artillery, which devalues the role of Malta and destroys the real hotbox that was the central Med'. you could go on and on...
K
Yes, yes, yes.
In HOI3 a large part of my overall strategy was bassed around logistics, precisely for that reason, which is what made me fall in lover with it.
I completely agree. And, even if Tripoli did not have local supply, you cannot even attack convoys that are carrying supply with aircraft. And, even if you use a surface force to attack the supply convoy, if the enemy escort runs away the convoy is safe. Logistics really needs some attention with the next big patch.
Yet I remember that a lot of people couldn't grasp how that supply system worked. Every week there was new posts about how the supply system was impossible to understand (for some people...). I understand why they simplified it if thread after thread complained about it.
About as many posts as there are now about the supply system not being complex enough.
Personally I think the supply UI is much better now. Easier to understand and gives better information on what you need to improve to be able to get more troops on the front. It could be better though if we split up the generic "supply" into more categories (like fuel, supplies)
But then the units should also consume less supplies if being stationary which I dont think they currently do.
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Trying to look at it from a totally different angle...
What if we had a new supply-tab. Where we can handle the supply situation to different parts of the army. The amount of oil you have give you fuel-points. Tungsten gives you ammo-points. Steel = spare parts? (even if that is kinda handled with attrition). Then, each brigade requires an amount of different supplies. In this supply-tab you can distribute your supply points to different armies, airforces and navies. A lack of supplies gives a malus to the division.
(I see before me a list of sliders upon sliders to precisely adjust which army should get that juicy supply!)
You'd need to write a whole new part of the game, but you'd likely need to do that if you want to add fuel to the current game anyways. But maybe it would be easier for people to understand and you could still prioritize fuel to where you want it. And keep the current supply system untouched (pretty much).
Simplyfing logistic system is understandable but making logistic system a nearly non entity is isn't. Hoi4 logistics feels like a belong to a hoi mobile game.
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While I think the supply system is too generous, good players really need to understand how the system works. There's no point in overwhelming the Soviets, losing 1 piece of equipment for ever 3 of theirs, if you end up losing thousands of equipment to attrition or have air wings facing -99% penalties to mission efficiency because the airfields aren't in sufficient supply.
Every time I run Barbarossa, I am always trying to optimize supply (if you aren't using LOG, you might as well turn in your HOI card). For example, I tried something new the other day against the AI. I ran a 24 panzer division (40 width) thrust against the Crimea (with the goal of reaching Baku within a few weeks). It was almost a debacle. I simply couldn't concentrate enough force to make it work. I kept having to leave panzer divisions in reserve or divert them north to Army Group Center, as there wasn't even close to enough supply to run the offensive I wanted. I still broke through eventually, but logistics, not strategies or tanks, kept me from pursuing the goal of the campaign.
There are also plenty of games where I have to plan offensives around the supply grace. If I can't achieve a tactical goal before running out of supply grace, I know will fail. It happens all the time around Vitesbk during Barbarossa in MP, but I've also seen it in Syria when racing for the Suez.
And before someone says, "But you don't need fuel," I'd like to point out that I care more about oil in HOI4 than I did in HOI3. The fact that it is ridiculously easy to set up synthetic plants doesn't change the fact that the Axis must take care of its oil deficit.
Here's the kicker: the last time I ran Husky and Overlord in MP, I had to stop bombing France and Italy for a few months to allow the Axis to repair it all. The ports and infrastructure were so bad, any serious Allied attempt to invade would have died on the vine or stalled.
Every time I run Barbarossa, I am always trying to optimize supply (if you aren't using LOG, you might as well turn in your HOI card). For example, I tried something new the other day against the AI. I ran a 24 panzer division (40 width) thrust against the Crimea (with the goal of reaching Baku within a few weeks). It was almost a debacle. I simply couldn't concentrate enough force to make it work. I kept having to leave panzer divisions in reserve or divert them north to Army Group Center, as there wasn't even close to enough supply to run the offensive I wanted. I still broke through eventually, but logistics, not strategies or tanks, kept me from pursuing the goal of the campaign.
There are also plenty of games where I have to plan offensives around the supply grace. If I can't achieve a tactical goal before running out of supply grace, I know will fail. It happens all the time around Vitesbk during Barbarossa in MP, but I've also seen it in Syria when racing for the Suez.
And before someone says, "But you don't need fuel," I'd like to point out that I care more about oil in HOI4 than I did in HOI3. The fact that it is ridiculously easy to set up synthetic plants doesn't change the fact that the Axis must take care of its oil deficit.
Here's the kicker: the last time I ran Husky and Overlord in MP, I had to stop bombing France and Italy for a few months to allow the Axis to repair it all. The ports and infrastructure were so bad, any serious Allied attempt to invade would have died on the vine or stalled.
My go-to-strategy as Germany in HOI3 when running low on oil: Invade another country and steal their stockpile!
And that assumes you didn't just buy enough before the war started.
How rare were rares in HOI3? Not that rare, apparently.
That's for equipment production, which is not really what is being discussed when people talk about needing fuel for their army/air force/navy.
In terms of strategy and mechanics, it matters little, though. Oil is a fungible commodity in HOI4.
In HOI3, I didn't care about oil that much. If you don't believe me, I'll link the one time I ran the Reich out of oil.
Oil was needed to fuel the war effort and drive all around the world in your precious panzers. Every time this topic of logistics comes up, someone complains that units don't need oil. Then I have to remind everyone that oil matters more than it did in the last iteration of HOI.
Um, you mean the game with the epicly bad supply system? The one where your units would starve to death for no obvious reason right next to a massive port through which they could easily receive the supplies they needed?
HOI4's supply system could do with improvement, but HOI3's wasn't that great and let's not pretend it was.
Yup, and that stockpile would instantly appear in your reserves as soon as you took their capital. Very realistic.
EDIT: oh, oh, oh - I forgot the best part! In HOI3 air wings literally didn't consume fuel. That's right, no fuel. And the supply system was so opaque that people only realised it this year - eight years after the game was released! Even the devs never noticed.
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