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Another *&^%$#@! Dutch Nationalism thread...

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unmerged(1668)

First Lieutenant
Mar 9, 2001
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I was playing as Spain in a new GC, (I "graduated" to the Hard level) and was leading in VP's with Turkey approaching my total. They were taking over large sections of Europe, and were at war with two other alliances. So I begin to load up my ships, and was ready to attack.

And then the rebellions started in the Netherlands provinces. Ok, no big deal, I thought. I had plenty of troops stationed there since I knew that it was going to happen. But those pesky peasants and their armored pitchforks soon ran over my troops. (I must have had about 75-100 infantry units there) so I have to delay my Turkish invasion, and take care of business at home. I unload *150* troops containing all three types of units (but mainly infantry) onto the rebelling provinces, and make quick work of the rebels.

But new ones popped up in Zeeland...then the province adjacent to that one...and the next...and the next...and soon my troops are gone. So I max out my funding to the treasury, and create new troops. They get wiped out. I constantly dropped off new troops, but just as soon as they would take over a province, new rebels would emerge elsewhere. It was really quite ridiculous. Not just the amount of rebels, (anywhere from 30-70 at a time) but the timing was uncanny. Put down one rebelling province, and seconds later, another one would take its place. I estimated that with the amount of troops that I burned in the Netherlands, I could *very easily* have taken three provinces from Turkey, and annexed either the Incas or Aztecs. So this farce carries on for at least 20-30 years, so then I get so ticked I power off my computer manually. I reboot and intentionally delete the file. I haven't gotten that mad over a game in quite some time.

So what's the best way to deal with this? Just let them form the Netherlands and forget about it? Do the provinces create more troops as rebels, or as a formal nation? Also, will I get a CB against them if I let them declare their independence?

I know that this was the hard level, but this really was insane.

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
 
Netherlands

Well this is what I did as France: Watched them rebel let them have the land. Beat up Spain who lost tons of troops doing what you did. When they became their own country, let them be on their own for a number of years (until the Treaty of Tolerance, which stops the Dutch Nationalism movement). DOW them. By this time the had established about 30 TPs but no colonies. Take their measly 3 provinces, annex and you have yourself a ready-made overseas empire! The BB hit is a bitch but as Spain everyone will probably be after you anyway.
 
I love the Dutch! early on I was tag-teamed by a franco-spanish alliance (as england, sorry) and lost calais and wessex. Not boding well, I thought. I built up forces but couldn't see a way to storm ashore in the teeth of france. Then rebellions start up in Holland, not knowing the game, I land troops. Long story short, the dutch proclaimed independence while I was still in there, and while the combined dutch and spanish presence was approx. one man and his dog. Union for the netherlands and england, and Oh boy is France sorry now....
 
In my last game, as France I ended up with two Dutch provinces. After thirty years of putting down the dang revolts in Flanders an Zeeland I just said, okay, you can have it, it's yours. BIG mistake, as now Artois, Calais, and the province that starts with an "H" are beginning to revolt. Also, I go into civil war, TWICE! And my entire army revolted! During a losing war I had just previously with Spain, the entire Netherlands was in revolt for over a year, and they didn't proclaim independence. :mad: I just put down the civil war, when a new civil war erupts, and the game crashes. Whew. Over forty years of fighting, I got sick of it, especially with 72 size armies appearing in Flanders every time I reconquered it.
 
Well, I guess in my current game (as Spain), I was lucky.

First of all, I have tried (as some of you have tried), to smash the rebellion, and failed.

So, for my current game, I decided to immediately withdraw to the three non rebelling provinces by the time Dutch nationalism hits. To compensate for the loss of income, I started a huge colonisation effort in North America, which went very well. It is now 1715, and almost all of Northern and Central America is colonized to city level.

The rebellion came, and within three years the five cities and provinces were under rebellion control. The rebelling armies then went for the neighbouring provinces, and died trying :)

And now comes the twist. I left them in a rebellion state! This meant that no other rebellion armies were raised, and thus the situation stabilized. It also meant I still controlled the CoT in Flanders !

The lucky part in my game is that the Netherlands never bothered to declare independance. So, when the rebellion percentage went down after 50 years or so, I simply reconquered the 5 provinces.
 
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The easiest way to handle it if you are Spain is to withdraw from the rebelling provinces. Once Holland forms, you are already at war with them, simply retake all the provinces you want except Holland itself. No more rebellions. If you re-annex, you'll get the rebellions again, so let a small Holland remain.
 
Thanks everyone.

I learned some useful tips from this thread: I had no idea that the Treaty of Tolerance ended the Dutch Nationalism, and this idea sound like it is worth trying:

"The easiest way to handle it if you are Spain is to withdraw from the rebelling provinces. Once Holland forms, you are already at war with them, simply retake all the provinces you want except Holland itself. No more rebellions. If you re-annex, you'll get the rebellions again, so let a small Holland remain."

I started over from the point of the revolts (I had a game saved there) and tried something different: I decided to let other countries take over the revolting provinces, to weaken them. England "took" 2 provinces, with Hessen (if I remember correctly) taking another. When I clicked on the Dutch Nationalist provinces that they had, their DN revolt risk was only 3 or 4, while the two provinces that I had was 42 and 43! Can someone explain this?

The funny thing was, that the Treaty of Tolerance was passed before the Netherlands ever formed, so I easily took back my two provinces.
I'm working on another game right now, but I was interested in experimenting with different things.
 
I don't know but it seems reasonable considering that they were conquered by calvinist nations (weren't they?). It makes more sense to rebel against super-catholic Spain than against leaders who believe what you do.
 
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