Any plans for cold war mechanics?

[Batzorio]

I'm really hoping Stellaris gets an in-depth diplomatic system, and from what I've seen so far it looks like you really focus on the states themselves and not just outright war.

This made me wonder if there could be any special mechanics between two large empires, waging proxy wars for example. Or receiving special events that could result in a crisis, which could even lead to outright war.

Personally I think it would be really interesting to see how this could be handled. I'd love to see myself actively trying to avoid warfare while still trying to get things my way, because I a war could lead to the outright destruction of either empire.

Thoughts?

 

[ParagonExile]

I agree. The game in general should be very heavily focused on domestic dealings and diplomacy. I'd be very disappointed if it turned into EU4, with map painting and mountains of corpses becoming the name of the game

In particular I'd really like for there to be a reason for larger states to work together with smaller nations rather than trying to annex them at the first opportunity. Hopefully federations are good.

 

[FelixG]

I would love to see puppet states in full swing. Including importing arms to support your favored faction.

 

[Abnwtwtud]

Have to agree with this and add that there ought to be a way to diplo-annex too.

 

[HolisticGod]

I think these diplomatic options are indispensable. Given the level of technology (and hopefully the resource, manpower, and energy costs), all-out war should be a rare, dramatic event. Trade wars, proxy wars among minor civilizations, electronic warfare, espionage, and so forth are the main arenas for competition between modern great powers. No reason to think it would be otherwise among post-modern great powers.

 

[Highlordelliot]

Supporting factions political parties rebels on worlds or small interstellar nations to join your federation to s cure rescources or geopolitical position for you to use against your rivals or opposing ideologies engage in espionage to steal tech secrets just like the Cold War

 

[Harle]

I have always felt that the measure of a good 4x space game is not how interesting it is when you are at war, but specifically, how interesting the game is when you are not at war.

So yeah, varying degrees of 'peace' and confrontation without total war between empires with a good level of depth would be great.

 

[Abayonett]

There should be some way to fight proxy wars or to harass opponents trade vessels (using privateers) or to raid their border planets in an anonymous way, perhaps without triggering war but worsening relations.

 

[RebelScum88]

I would like for there to be some sort of crisis mechanic sort of like Vicky 2 where the issue gradually escalates and cant be ignored by great powers. Or something like the Neutral Zone in Star Trek with defined borders and outposts that could be raided, which for the raiding country could give you some sort of domestic benefit while it worsens relations with the opposing power, and the raided country could lose prestige or have militant factions form to oppose that.

 

[Payens]

I guess that, if they want to take their Ethics Systems seriously, there has to be a non-military way to wage war; I mean, we can be devoted pacifists after all, can we not? This might be the single largest hint that diplomacy will be quite fleshed out.

 

[Batzorio]

I was also thinking of a possible special mechanic called "Pressure", the value could go up and down depending on where you stand compared to your rival.
It would have negative effects if it gets too high, and when it gets even higher it could result in factions seceding from your empire and if the value reaches its maximum it results in the dissolution of your state and the end of the cold war.

You would lose your established sphere of influence (if such a system is in place) with the possibility to get some of it back by force. I suppose a change in government form would also occur, like having your immortal emperor abdicate in favor of a government form more similair to your old rival (somewhere in between maybe?).

Anyone else got some ideas?

 

[RebelScum88]

yea regime change would seem to be a natural outcome to the loss of a cold war, certainly a loss in influence and a loss of loyalty from your pops.

 

[Chief of Staff]

I really like the Romulans and the Neutral Zone thing in Star Trek (best shown in Star Trek: The Original Series and Star Trek: The Next Generation). Romulans were really tricky people to deal with. They are kind of people that intrigues so much they made a challenging yet interesting foe for Federation and yet not go to war at all for centuries. There has been many incursions into the Neutral Zone for various reasons, mainly to test each other. They keep watchful eyes on each other in order to decide their next moves. And of course, raiding outposts in the Neutral Zone would test their defense as Romulans did in TOS episode "Balance of Terror".

I feel so strongly that Neutral Zone along with cold war mechanics would add so much in game to diplomacy and, particularly for former, mystery (what are people on the other side of the zone up to? Short of sending a military vessel into neutral zone and provoking the war, there isn't much you can do about that except by somehow sending spies over there). In fact, I think the closest real-life equivalent to Neutral Zone is the DMZ borders between North Korea and South Korea, although I would say maybe the neutral zone is more stringent than DMZ.

 

[Highlordelliot]

I really like the Romulans and the Neutral Zone thing in Star Trek (best shown in Star Trek: The Original Series and Star Trek: The Next Generation). Romulans were really tricky people to deal with. They are kind of people that intrigues so much they made a challenging yet interesting foe for Federation and yet not go to war at all for centuries. There has been many incursions into the Neutral Zone for various reasons, mainly to test each other. They keep watchful eyes on each other in order to decide their next moves. And of course, raiding outposts in the Neutral Zone would test their defense as Romulans did in TOS episode "Balance of Terror".

I feel so strongly that Neutral Zone along with cold war mechanics would add so much in game to diplomacy and, particularly for former, mystery (what are people on the other side of the zone up to? Short of sending a military vessel into neutral zone and provoking the war, there isn't much you can do about that except by somehow sending spies over there). In fact, I think the closest real-life equivalent to Neutral Zone is the DMZ borders between North Korea and South Korea, although I would say maybe the neutral zone is more stringent than DMZ.

aside from the obvious what was the neutral zone why was is there?

 

[kreissig]

I think these diplomatic options are indispensable. Given the level of technology (and hopefully the resource, manpower, and energy costs), all-out war should be a rare, dramatic event. Trade wars, proxy wars among minor civilizations, electronic warfare, espionage, and so forth are the main arenas for competition between modern great powers. No reason to think it would be otherwise among post-modern great powers.

^This.
Such ideas combined/intertwined with Casus Beli could create a whole range of Diplomatic options that would just blow other 4x's out of the water - in terms of replay and depth.

 

[Highlordelliot]

^This.
Such ideas combined/intertwined with Casus Beli could create a whole range of Diplomatic options that would just blow other 4x's out of the water - in terms of replay and depth.

We can only hope.

 

[neverlay]

What would also be great is if , like many of the Star Trek TOS episodes, the cold war is fought on pre-FTL or Burgeoning Races, so that if you have already made contact, total or partial, you can attempt to take the fight to them through pre-warp proxy's (see ST:TOS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Private_Little_War) Or, if you're more inclined to manipulate these people to think you are their God's, it would be very easy to convince them that your enemies are the devil/demons etc.

 

[CaesarCzech]

Russian thread is one thread above yours right now.
Ironic.

 

[Botox]

What would also be great is if , like many of the Star Trek TOS episodes, the cold war is fought on pre-FTL or Burgeoning Races, so that if you have already made contact, total or partial, you can attempt to take the fight to them through pre-warp proxy's (see ST:TOS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Private_Little_War) Or, if you're more inclined to manipulate these people to think you are their God's, it would be very easy to convince them that your enemies are the devil/demons etc.

I dont think so. In TOS the only point was to show that Klingons are cruel and nasty enemies.
There is just no need or sense in giving pre-warp species weapons of any kind if they just turn on each others throat (besides you want to show that in SpaceTV as a real life soap opera).

 

[Dargaron]

Ideally, (on the note of the Neutral Zone from Star Trek, and the incursions thereof), it would be really nice if there was a way to have "limited" wars; that is to say, a small (or not-so-small) portion of your military forces are "committed" to the war, and only those forces can fight in it without getting some kind of penalty. This could play into the Cassius Belli system; certain CBs might only give the option for a limited war (the ever-popular "Diplomatic Insult," for example, might only allow for minor skirmishes on its own), but with a chance for each engagement to "escalate" the conflict; in a decentralized or militarized state, units might commit themselves to a war where the warscore is lopsided one way or another, whether the player wants them to or not, potentially causing the other side to do the same. On the other hand, there might be CBs that give penalties if the number of forces committed is too low: a Xenophobic state might have a x% chance to increase a "Diplomatic Insult" CB to a "Grievous Injury" CB, which demands that either: A. 50% or more of the faction's forces or B. forces equal to or greater than 75% of all enemy forces, be committed, else the player risks getting unhappiness among his/her jingoist pops.