"Apida-i-Tada" - Sabratha's minimod

[Sabratha]

APIDA-I-TADA
Peoples&Lands minimod in progress

"Apida-i-Tada" comes from the Skythian language and simply means "Lands and peoples". As the name might suggest, this is going to be a mod centered around improving issues with various cultures, religions and the map itself. Particular attention will be given to the cultures of the middle east, germania and the pontic-caspian steppes.

FEATURES:
Expanded and fixed map regarding Mesopotamia and the Iranian plateau - done
New Chaldean culture and religion - done
Ancient arabian religion - done
Skythian religion - done
Illyrian religion - done
Phrygian religion - done
New historical near eastern states and characters. Atropatene, Adiabene, Elymais, Characene, Persis, Merv - done
Expanding and fixing the northern part of the map (pontic-caspian steppe) - done
Fixed North african religion, provinces, states and cultures - done
Fixed Thracian religion, provinces and cultures - done
Fixed Germanic religion, provinces and cultures - done
Fixed Iberian religion, provinces and cultures - WIP
New states - WIP
Start date moved to 298 BCE, end date moved to 37 AD - WIP
Province biomes - WIP
Province military modifiers - WIP

Adjusted recruitment, manpower and max forcelimit mechanics - planned
Culture - specific military modifiers - planned
Adjusted trait system - planned
Culture-specific events - planned
Religion-specific events - planned

I'm not planning to make this a "total conversion mod", rather I plan to add realism and flexibility to the game, without altering the core gameplay. That is not to say I will not change a few particularly irritating gameplay issues. This is a mod I started mostly for my own pleasure, but I thought it might be good to share it with the community.

I'd like to thank first and foremost Hardradi, for allowing me to make use of his terrain files. This had saved me a lot of time and workload. His terrain is beautiful and I don't believe I could have done it half as well as he did. Thanks Hardradi!
Thanks also go to my friend Anahit Kasabian for her help when it comes to the ancient middle east, pontic steppe and her knowledge of the skythian and other ancient indo-iranian languages.
Big thanks to Tala Dahlqvist for general encouregement as well as providing better (swedish language) sources on early germanic cultures.
Thanks go to paradox forums member 'Fu.Th.Sy.' for helping me out with startup code.
Last but not least, I'd also like to express my thanks to prof. Adam Ziółkowski of the University of Warsaw for greatly contributing to my knowledge of all things Roman, in particular the Roman imperialism of the period.

On a final note - I hope that announcing the mod on the spring equinox will be an auspicious sign. The goddess of winter and death is soon to leave the land (though she still has a forsty grip here atm), green grass is bound to appear soon bringing new life. Rejoice!

 

[Sabratha]

Current dilemmas:
1) Religion of iberian tribes. The lack of credible sources in this respect forces me to speculate. Only real info I have is that Iberians worshipped a number of water spirits/lesser dieties, as well as sacred stones. We have a number of names of dieties, from inscriptions but no other info about them. Alternatively I could "cook up" an iberian pantheon by picking some of those diety names at random to be used in the omen mechanics. However i don't feel like doing that without knowing anything about said gods and their competenes in the first place.
My current position is that celtiberian provinces will be left with druidism, while iberian culture provinces with shamanism. If anyone has any info on the subject, please let me know.

2) Ligurian and Venetian religion. Again, lack of sources.
Current position is to leave Ligurians with druidism (as they had close contact with celtic tribes), with Veneti with shamanism. (let's be honest - I'll be using shamanism wherever I deicide that there is no data or too little data on any complex pantheon).

3) Dividing celtic areas into cultures. Vanilla has a single celtic culture from the mountains of scotland way down to Galatia. In comparison with how many germanic cultures they put in, this is rather peculiar.
I'm sure not going to make each tribe have its own in-game culture. I think I will compromise and brake them down into Gallic, Belgae, Brythonic, Goidelic (yeah, dividing the british isles into linguistic groups for lack of better period info) and a combined "South Celtic" culture representing groups south and east of the alps.
Pictish is a bit of a challenge, since there is an ongoing scientific debate over whether the Picts were Brythonic or Goidelic speakers. I personally am leaning twoards Goidelic, but I'm in no way a specialist here.

4) Germanic cultures. I will be likley removing one germanic culture - Suebi. There will be just "West Germanic", "East Germanic" and "North Germanic" cultures in my mod. Again, I'm following the linguistic path here, but there seems to be some strong evidence that this seemingly linguistic division had wider effects. Thanks to roman sources we can spot that in fact these three linguistic groups had different military practices and traditions. East germanic tribes (probably as a result of contact with sauromata tribes) had embraced the lance and mounted armored nobility as a separate force. Western germanic groups featured mixed foot&horsemen units and the cavalry lance was unknown. Noth germanic tribes fought almost exclusively on foot and this tradition remained until the early middle ages.
So my own hunch is that the linguistic differences were just the most visible symptom of a broader cultural split and that's whow i'll represent these in-game.

5) Naval units. Originally I was planning to have triremes buildable in any province with a port, and have larger ships buildable in provinces with access to wood. I'm not so sure this will work, as I have yet to confirm wether its possible to introduce new units (larger ships) to the game.

 

[Ijtzoi]

Oooh interesting. You've already done the steppe? Could we get some screenshots of what that part of the map looks like? Are the trade goods just horses and wood? I can imagine it'd be challenging otherwise to make them all have access to wood and horses so they can make horse archers. I've been itching for good games as the Skythians and vanilla doesn't give much opportunity, but I guess that can be said for most low-civilization nations. Have any mechanics in mind for nomadism?

(let's be honest - I'll be using shamanism wherever I deicide that there is no data or too little data on any complex pantheon).

Hmm. This'll have gameplay repercussions. Religion wasn't all that big a deal in international relations, as I understand it, but in EU:R if you're a different religion then you tend to be in the deep negatives for relations. And there's no real reason the Sarmatians and Skythians would be buddy-buddy with the Iberians and Venetics but not the Germans and Greeks. I'd probably copy-paste shamanism's omens into a new religion for those cases. Maybe split the Venetians into whatever the Illyrians have?

3) Dividing celtic areas into cultures. Vanilla has a single celtic culture from the mountains of scotland way down to Galatia. In comparison with how many germanic cultures they put in, this is rather peculiar.
I'm sure not going to make each tribe have its own in-game culture. I think I will compromise and brake them down into Gallic, Belgae, Brythonic, Goidelic (yeah, dividing the british isles into linguistic groups for lack of better period info) and a combined "South Celtic" culture representing groups south and east of the alps.
Pictish is a bit of a challenge, since there is an ongoing scientific debate over whether the Picts were Brythonic or Goidelic speakers. I personally am leaning twoards Goidelic, but I'm in no way a specialist here.

Caesar seems to have identified the Aquitani as being a nation as distinct from the main Celts as the Belgae were, without any real mention of the Alpines having a special status. That's not to say they didn't, of course, they were mostly in Rome's borders by the time he was writing so he may have just been neglecting them as not being what he was writing about, but I'd lean to giving the Aquitani their own culture over [or in addition to] the South Celts.
As for the Picts, at the very least from a gameplay perspective it'll give the Goidels 1 or 2 more provinces. The Brythons already have 6 with Brigantes down, and the Goidels only have 4 if they just have Ireland. Pretty small culture without the Picts.

4) Germanic cultures. I will be likley removing one germanic culture - Suebi. There will be just "West Germanic", "East Germanic" and "North Germanic" cultures in my mod. Again, I'm following the linguistic path here, but there seems to be some strong evidence that this seemingly linguistic division had wider effects. Thanks to roman sources we can spot that in fact these three linguistic groups had different military practices and traditions. East germanic tribes (probably as a result of contact with sauromata tribes) had embraced the lance and mounted armored nobility as a separate force. Western germanic groups featured mixed foot&horsemen units and the cavalry lance was unknown. Noth germanic tribes fought almost exclusively on foot and this tradition remained until the early middle ages.
So my own hunch is that the linguistic differences were just the most visible symptom of a broader cultural split and that's whow i'll represent these in-game.

All of this seems solid enough. Any plans on name them things more interesting than North/West/East? If no other names are available, I suppose they'll have to do, but it'd be preferable to have something that might not change. If the East Germanics conquer territory west of some West Germanic lands, things become a bit less descriptive.

5) Naval units. Originally I was planning to have triremes buildable in any province with a port, and have larger ships buildable in provinces with access to wood. I'm not so sure this will work, as I have yet to confirm wether its possible to introduce new units (larger ships) to the game.

I don't think it is possible to add new units to the game. If you look in defines.txt you'll see hardcoded variables like _MDEF_TRIREMES_COST_ and you don't really have an option to create new defines variables. If you even can have multiple units of one type (haven't tried it, will when I get a chance but doesn't seem likely), they'll cost the same and be unlocked by the same things.

Looking forwards to trying your mod! I'd be glad to contribute some events or flags or basic things when I get the time if you need them.

 

[Sabratha]

I am going to be forced to reshuffle some ideas when it comes to unit production. Seems that new units cannot be added in. So likley no changes to the fleet combat system, sorry guys

Oooh interesting. You've already done the steppe? Could we get some screenshots of what that part of the map looks like? Are the trade goods just horses and wood?

Tradegoods in the area will obviously include horses, but also wood, wild game and grain.

Here is the steppe part of the map:


Other changes to the map are:
1) Expanding east to include the iranian plateau up and including Drangiana. I have made a conscious decision not to include Bactria, Arachosia and Indus, which remain outside the scope of this small mod for now.
2) Small southern expansion to include north Kush.
3) Phoenicia split into 2 provinces.
4) Ionia split from Lydia.
5) Various smaller changes in the middle east.

Have any mechanics in mind for nomadism?

Yes, though it might be hard to simulate properly. The steppe cultures were constantly on the move - rule was over a said population rather than terrain. EU:Rome is about terrain control. Sauromata tribes living on the border of the Oikumene had active contacts with their cousins living fully nomadic lives up to the Ural mountains. Sometimes they fought, sometimes they allowed new groups to come and settle with them.
The in-game way to simulate this will be twofold. One is a culture-specific goverment. Another will be giving northern steppe cultures a fixed cultural modifier (remember the cultural modifiers I mentioned?) population growth penalty. On the other hand, they will have access to special decisions to accept new migrants "from beyond the map edge". This will earn border provinces free pops at a cost of stability and an increased revolt risk for some time in said province.

Hmm. This'll have gameplay repercussions. Religion wasn't all that big a deal in international relations, as I understand it, but in EU:R if you're a different religion then you tend to be in the deep negatives for relations. And there's no real reason the Sarmatians and Skythians would be buddy-buddy with the Iberians and Venetics but not the Germans and Greeks.

Skythians and Sarmatians will have their own religion, no longer shamanism. Herodotus provided us with some pretty solid (if short) information about their religion and gods. In a way we have an opposite dilemma to the iberian religion - we know some of the Gods and their competences, but not always the name. I'm sure Anahit can provide me with an educated reconstructed skythain name guess based on names from close indoeuropean languages (cherkes, Hatti, azbak, temirgoi... Anahit can do real magic with linguistic analysis of the region).
I think its still better to guess at names rather than take existing names and try to figure out what was the function of said god.

Caesar seems to have identified the Aquitani as being a nation as distinct from the main Celts as the Belgae were, without any real mention of the Alpines having a special status. That's not to say they didn't, of course, they were mostly in Rome's borders by the time he was writing so he may have just been neglecting them as not being what he was writing about, but I'd lean to giving the Aquitani their own culture over [or in addition to] the South Celts.

A valid observation, as I said - its a design choice how do we divide cultures. In real life we had a number of varying degrees of similarity - Germanic culture was divided into large linguistic groups with separate military traditions (eg: west germanic), thsese were divided into sub-linguistic groups (eg: Ingvaeonic), these were divided into tribes(eg: Chaucii), these were divided into branches, these into clans, those into bands...
Now the designer decision is wher eto draw the line and make something an in-game culture. I will make a case-by-case decision, but in general I try to fall back on linguistic divides if faced by the lack of period sources.
And the Aquitani are already in-game as of 2.36. (Yes, I wondered by the Aquitani are in and the Belgae are not. But teh Belgae will be added by me for certain). The big question is where to draw the line when it comes to cisalpine celts and should danubian and galatian tribes have their own culture. So far I'm not yet sure on those. Oh and there are the Pics... yeah celtic cultural groups are a mystery - many modern theories and professors shouting names at oen another in this subject

All of this seems solid enough. Any plans on name them things more interesting than North/West/East? If no other names are available, I suppose they'll have to do, but it'd be preferable to have something that might not change. If the East Germanics conquer territory west of some West Germanic lands, things become a bit less descriptive.

As funny as it is, that is the original linguistic division - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Germanic_languages.

Well, on top there are some province name changes and some cultures moved. Now the east caucasus will be Ibero culture for example, Sauromat culture only north of this. Ambrones and Chaucii changed places (ambrones will be changed to Teutones btw)... so yeah just a few examples.

Looking forwards to trying your mod! I'd be glad to contribute some events or flags or basic things when I get the time if you need them.

Flags for more Brythonic, Gallic and Germanic tribal states would be most welcome. I could probably make some of my own, but it would save me some time not to have to work on those.

 

[Sabratha]

Finally done with the Skythian religion.

Meet the powerfull steppe gods:

1) Targitaus - sky god and creator of all things. He is mentioned by Herodotus who states that the Scythians believe him to be the first being alive. Herodotus calls him a "man", but he was obviously a god. Indoiranian etymology makes it clear - compare with the Hatti weather/sky god "taaru", ugrian sky god "tarem" or the hungarian word for creator "teremt". (Hungarian language actually has a lot of leftover words from old indoiranian languages - mostly becaus ethe Hungarians were still eurasian steppe nomads during the early middle ages).
As a sky and thunder god, he will be responsible for "Divine morale" omens.

2) Thamimasadas - scythan god of the sea mentioned by Herodotus and compared to Poseidon. He will be responsible for divine trade omens (as he is the god of the sea and most merchants come to scythian lands through the black sea).

3) Apia, the scythian goddess of the earth. A wife to targitaus, her name comes simply from the indoeuropean api - "land/earth" and the scythian female suffix -ia. The ia suffix is the same basic one that present in a lot of modern indoeuropean female names - Katia, Tania, Amelia etc.
Apia will be responsible for calm omens.

4) Oetosyr - scythian god of the sun also mentioned by our trusty Herodotus. The prefix oeto is similar to the sumerian and old cherkes words for sun which is "utu".
Oetosyr is compared to Apollo and thus will be responsible for research omens.

5) Artimpaz - scythian love goddess, mentioned by Herodotus and compared with Aphrodite.
She will naturally be responsible for fertility omens.

6) Tabiti - Scythian fire goddess compared by Herodotus to Hestia. Again, old indoeuropean name, comparable to the sumerian word tabi - "fire". she will be responsible for defence omens.

7) Arpoxais - the son of Targitaus and the female water diety of the river Dnepr. Herodotus mentions him just as the son of Targitaus, but in a later part he refers to an "Ares" war god worshipped by scythians. Since Arpoxais means something like "war lord/war leader" then assuming that he is the said "Ares of the scythians" seems plausible. He will be responsible for discipline omens.

8) Colaxais - another son of Targitaus and the Dnepr goddess, mentioned as Herodotus to be the progenitor of the scythian royal houses. Naturally he will be responsible for divine ruler omens.

There, hope you like the new Scythian pantheon. If you want to read more about the etymology of old Scythian words and names, take a look here: http://users.cwnet.com/millenia/scythwrd.html

For Herodotus's account of the Scythians, here's an english translation: http://www.heritageinstitute.com/zoroastrianism/reference/herodotus_scythia.htm

For me its great fun to add more flavor to a great culture that was not very prominently featured in EU:Rome

 

[Fu.Th.Sy.]

You've done some really extensive research on this. Already looking forward for it's release. If you wish I could help you with balancing.
You mentioned forcelimits in your first post. This can simply be done by modding static_modifiers.txt. Do you also plan to modify some other stuff like starting manpower,armies or relations?

 

[Sabratha]

You've done some really extensive research on this. Already looking forward for it's release. If you wish I could help you with balancing.
You mentioned forcelimits in your first post. This can simply be done by modding static_modifiers.txt. Do you also plan to modify some other stuff like starting manpower,armies or relations?

Yes, in fact I have already worked on some of those. Remember that my goal is to have the startdate to about 298. International relations are different from those in 280. Rome will be busy with the Samnites and Pyrrus will be busy in Greece competing for domination with the Lysimachid, Antigonid and Antipatrid states. Hell, four out of Alexander's orignal commanders will still be alive.

So far the manpower changes are going to be most noticable when it comes to the Hellenistic empires. For exmaple Ptolemaic Egypt is now a country with a greek "state culture" however Alexandria is now a province with Greek culutre as well. Seleucia is now a Chaldean culture province, but Syria (as Apamea wa a major Seleucid manpower base and military center) is now greek culture. Thus the starting balance between Egypt and the Seleucid empire is changed, though Egypt still starts with higher manpower than the Seleucids.
Speaking of the Seleucids - they start with more provinces in the east, but now Persis and Atropatene start as independant states. In general playing the Seleucid empire will now be more challenging (lots of unrest, rebellions and the Parthians will be stronger once they expand south), but the seleucid empire now has far more late-game potential. That is if you survive long enough for hellenisation to take effect.

In a test game (I played as Rome) the AI seleucid empire within the first 20 years was already in trouble - Parthia was established and a great Persian uprising split from the Seleucids... overall the middle east is now going to be more chaotic and unpredictable.

I may test a few manpower&forcelimit changes in comparison with vanilla, like having citizens participate in a limited manner when it comes to manpower - 0.1 per citizen or so (think Romes equites, Hellenistic nobility serving in Agema style formations etc).

 

[Fu.Th.Sy.]

What do you think of the idea of Barbarians releasing nations? By that I mean barbarians giving uncolonized provinces to a nation that does not exist at that moment. Let's say Rome decides to colonize or conquer a province in Britain and suddenly a celtic nation appears next to this province. This also preserves the speed of this game.

 

[Sabratha]

That would be possible, although in my opinion it would only make it easier for the 'big states". Currently Rome has to invest more time and resources to grab and sustain an "uncolonized" province than to conquer a 1-2 province low-tech minor state.

Progress is continuing, today I finished creating the states of Adiabene, Atropatene, Elymais, Characene, Persis and Merv. I'm also adding historical monarchs and characters for them. Some kings are known mostly from coins minted under their rule, so some genealogical specilation was necessary (like guessing if a certain king was the son or the brother of the previous king etc).

I also made flags for them. The flag of Persis naturally has the Farahvar, Elymais has a star, crescent and an anchor (as feature on their coins). Characene and Atropatene have designs based on golden works of art from the period. Merv has a geometric design based somewhat on traditional rug designs of this region.

 

[Sabratha]

Iranian states all done, so are smaller greek colonies around the map. Numidia and Mauretania are fixed now, proper culture, proper history files, rulers, political divisons (Numidia starts as two tribal states and has to be unified via decisions).

I still need to make a few minor map adjustments to the steppes (got new info on interpreting tribal locations from herodotus and later authors). I also finished history files for an extended gameplay (currently ends at 14 AD - death of Augustus). I also started working on moving the startdate back to the 290s, but that actually is proving to be more demanding than it seems.

 

[Lofman]

Just wanted to say that I am looking forward to this.

 

[Sabratha]

Thanks, I'm going to keep working on this, though progress will be slower as my RL job suddenly became much more time consuming.

 

[Sabratha]

Update

Well, here's the update on the mod:

1) I have made some playtests that prove promising, but have also proved a few shortcomings when it comes to map design and balance. I have spent some time to adress those and came up with an extended steppe that reaches the Aral sea.
2) For both historical accuracy and gameplay balance, I have introduced Bactria, Arachosia and central asian Skythian nations. Again, this required some map extension.
3) I have decided to make the provinces more varied, more distinct from one another. One way I hope to achieve this will be introducing biomes, a feature already seen in previous mods. Another will be assigning province military modifiers to simulate specialized local troop types. Lands with longtime military traditions (example: Samnium, Rome, Cherusci, Apamea) or those which were large centers of famous mercenaries (Example: Rhodian slingers, Cretean archers) start with experience modifiers.

I'm still looking for a way to increase only specific troop type experience (only Psiloi in Crete, but not Cavalry recruited in Crete etc).

 

[Sabratha]

Update

Well, the mod is still alive and being worked on.

1) Both "hands-off" playtests as well as discussions with Anahit made it absolutely clear that there is no alternative to expanding the game spectrum a further east to include Bactria, Paropamisada and Arachosia. India will not be included (I have to draw the line somewhere you know...)

2) Biomes so far seem to work fine, but further playtests to check for long-term balance will be needed.

3) I'm working on Thracian, Getae, Germanic and Iberian states and cultures now. I got my hands on some new info, so Iberian religion will most likely be included in the mod.

Once the biomes, iberian, germanic and thracian states are done, I will likely release a beta version of the mod.