Which composition you use and why ? asking for retinues ....
What is the diference between levy, retinues and ronin army ?
What is the diference between levy, retinues and ronin army ?
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Levy are a mix of Ashigaru and Samurai, raised from an individual Kori (province).
Retinue are the personal army of a land holder, either a Kokujin, Diamyo or Clan Leader.
A Ronin army is a personal retinue of a landless noble, their leader travels with them, and if you wish to "adopt" the leader into your clan, you can grant them a landed title.
Retinue are the personal army of a land holder, either a Kokujin, Diamyo or Clan Leader.
A Ronin army is a personal retinue of a landless noble, their leader travels with them, and if you wish to "adopt" the leader into your clan, you can grant them a landed title.
ty, i know basics, but i would like to know what is the diferences between ronin army, levy army and retinue army. What special atributes have each of those types which one or both other type of units dont have.
for example retinue army get bonuses from buldings while levy army dont have any bonuses. What is the situatuion with ronin army about that ?
for example retinue army get bonuses from buldings while levy army dont have any bonuses. What is the situatuion with ronin army about that ?
Ronin are an extension of your retinue in most ways of looking at it. They use the same province building bonuses and reinforce the same way as your personal retinue. Ronin have the advantage that because they have their own leader that they do not count against your retinue count which allows you to form a larger personal army. Another thing to keep in mind is that your personal retinue will become a ronin unit for your heir. This can be used to create some very large personal armies over several generations.
I personally start out with an all cavalry retinue early on. I hire some ronin as they become available. I build up my provinces for cavalry shock then fire. After 60-80 years, I have a good 14-20k stack of mostly (10k or more) cavalry. I have yet to have a game last long enough for me to get firearms, but I would expect to put 4-6k of them in my unit for an initial devastating volley if I ever got to that point.
I personally start out with an all cavalry retinue early on. I hire some ronin as they become available. I build up my provinces for cavalry shock then fire. After 60-80 years, I have a good 14-20k stack of mostly (10k or more) cavalry. I have yet to have a game last long enough for me to get firearms, but I would expect to put 4-6k of them in my unit for an initial devastating volley if I ever got to that point.
Retinue is inherited directly if your heir does not already have a retinue. Chances are that if you have granted your heir a landed title, he will have a retinue and yours will then become ronin for him.
The only problems I have with cavalry are the price of maintenance and the lack of the ability to assault a castle. I have not tried it, but does an all cavalry army even make progress on a siege?
Is it realistic that an all cavalry army should be able to devastate an enemy? I would think that several units of Samurai and Ashigaru equiped with yari would neutralize the effect of being on horse. There should be a combined arms bonus and a malus for being above a certain percentage cavalry similar to what is used in EU3.
Cavalry will progress a siege, but they are not used in the assault. I use levy for sieges, and my army is for breaking the enemy's stacks. I find levy too weak to use except in the most desperate situations. The bonuses to shock on my cavalry make the first few rounds rather bad for the enemy even if they have a slight numerical advantage.
Does the shock value increase the progression rate on a siege?
I usually build armies of around 20k out of retinue/ronin. By the time I reach 50% of Japan I usually have 3 of these armies. The bonus from buildings is negligible at this point. I usually try to put 4k Arquebusiers in each stack if I can get firearms early enough and inherit some ronin upon character death. They don't get any bonus from anything. That has left me little ability to collect data on the subject. I have always thought that the bonus from buildings was too weak. Apparently you have come up with a strategy that utilizes maximum bonus from buildings and I am pretty interested by it.
As long as we are on the subject of army composition, why do levies not use arquebuses? They would be much more useful if instead of ashigaru footsoldiers, they raised Arquebusiers until you ran out of firearms. This would make players like you and I able to use them for more than castle defense. Also, they should get a small permanent bonus from buildings regardless of the number of units of levy raised. That way it does not effect the current system for retinue bonus if that is possible.
I usually build armies of around 20k out of retinue/ronin. By the time I reach 50% of Japan I usually have 3 of these armies. The bonus from buildings is negligible at this point. I usually try to put 4k Arquebusiers in each stack if I can get firearms early enough and inherit some ronin upon character death. They don't get any bonus from anything. That has left me little ability to collect data on the subject. I have always thought that the bonus from buildings was too weak. Apparently you have come up with a strategy that utilizes maximum bonus from buildings and I am pretty interested by it.
As long as we are on the subject of army composition, why do levies not use arquebuses? They would be much more useful if instead of ashigaru footsoldiers, they raised Arquebusiers until you ran out of firearms. This would make players like you and I able to use them for more than castle defense. Also, they should get a small permanent bonus from buildings regardless of the number of units of levy raised. That way it does not effect the current system for retinue bonus if that is possible.
Yes, they can siege, but not assault.
On your second point, cavalry unit is an abstraction. It doesn't really represent 250 men on horseback, but a group of samurai cavalry with their own foot retainers accompanying them. That's also the reason why cavalry units don't move any faster than foot soldiers.
It's also my point that levy units should be able to be improved the same as retinue units are. No realistic abstraction in current system. Hope mods can change this just not sure if that part is hardcoded or not?
Are you ppl sure that retinue are cheaper than ronin army. Look this picture :
ronin army : 500/250
retinue army : 1000/500
ronin army : 500/250
retinue army : 1000/500
Oh wow! I had my suspicions that they were the same price, however your example seems to be even more expensive!Are you ppl sure that retinue are cheaper than ronin army. Look this picture :
ronin army : 500/250
retinue army : 1000/500
Does anyone have thoughts on my statement about levies using firearms?
I don't think all levies should start using them, but perhas provinces with gun manufactory in them could have small musket levy on top of ashigaru and samurai.
From Defines.lua,Are you ppl sure that retinue are cheaper than ronin army. Look this picture :
ronin army : 500/250
retinue army : 1000/500
RETINUE_MAINTENANCE_FACTOR = 0.20,
LEVY_MAINTENANCE_FACTOR = 0.10,
RONIN_MAINTENANCE_FACTOR = 0.25,
In other words, your retinue are twice as expensive as your levy and your ronin are a bit more expensive than your retinue. This is all for troop compositions that are the same since cavalry are more expensive than infantry.
Are you ppl sure that retinue are cheaper than ronin army. Look this picture :
ronin army : 500/250
retinue army : 1000/500
As other posters already have stated, ronin cost more. Are you sure you're not over your retinue limit?
No i am not over limit. I have 6 and limit is 7.
Does some traits influence cost of mainting army ?
Does price of recruiting new retinues go up in some cases ?
Does some traits influence cost of mainting army ?
Does price of recruiting new retinues go up in some cases ?
What is the composition of your retinue vs your ronin (cav/inf/arq) since different units have different prices?
you can see comosition, i wrote it under picture.
here is now new picture few days afther :
now it is looking ok, just as manual say. I dont have old save game, but it seems that there is something which can increase retinue maintance which isnt explained. Or maybe some kind of bug. i will watch this issue carefull and try to catch save game if i see this again.
here is now new picture few days afther :
now it is looking ok, just as manual say. I dont have old save game, but it seems that there is something which can increase retinue maintance which isnt explained. Or maybe some kind of bug. i will watch this issue carefull and try to catch save game if i see this again.