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Austria vassalization by steiermark ??

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hi,
I was just trying my first EEP game as Austria, and as a first step i was thinking of diploannexing steiermark.
I'm in the same alliance, i have a wedding, we are both at peace,
BUT
i never get the option to vassalize them (even with relation +200), and in most cases, as soon as i get relation to +200, they try to vassalize me !

is this normal ? did i forgot something ?

btw, i can propose vassalization to tyrol under the same conditions....
 
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Are you vassals of them? (you said they tried to annex, and that's the only way they could aside from war)

Are they richer than you? (If so, you can't vassalise them AFAIK)
 
oups ! you're right, i said it wrong : they don't try to annex me, they try to vassalize me (just edited it in the first post)

about them being richer, that's possible, how can i check that ? (and btw what means AFAIK ?)

I didn't knew you couldn't vassalize a richer country than yours...
 
Well, if none of you have any vassals or are vassals fo anyone ... then what you have is REALLY weird. I have played as Austria and I do not recall something like that.

I DO recall an event that makes Austria a vassal of Steiermark ... though I am not sure if that event is still in in 1.42a ...

But if there are no vassals in the relationship, you may have stumbled on to some extremely rare and until now undiscovered bug ... Either that or there is something you've missed, or something obvious that everyone else can't think of either :)

EDIT: Sterimark IS richer than you. Their entire territory is one large gold mine ... litterally :D
But even if they are richer, you will always still have the option to vassalize (they might refuse, but the option is ALWAYS there) - so that can't be it either

EXTRA EDIT: You say it's every time you start up a new game as Austria. How early in the game are you trying to vassalize them? (Not that it matters for the purpose of having the option - but perhaps it could help someone who knew the events of the Austrian realms to solve your problem)
 
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well, i don't remeber the first time i tried to vassalize them, and how far it was on the game.
But after that i strated several new games as austria to check that particular problem, so i tried to vassalize them as soon as i could.
that's quite easy, and you can try that in the very first years.
If you want to check that possible bug by yourself, it takes 5 minutes to be able to offer vassalization ^^

anyway, thanks everyone for your help :)
 
OK I did what you asked and tried ... and much to my surprise (I am sorry to say) I found that you are right ... hrrhmmm

There is absolutely no doubt. ALL 5 conditions were met - relations of 190+, no wars, no vassalizations to anyone, RM in existance (I even tried to break it and make a new one), and so forth.

Austria cannot ask to vassalize Steirmark. It seems to me that the game feels that there is some sort of condition which is not met (for Steirmark had no problem asking me for vassalization).

I have no clue what is happening, but there is no doubt: You've discovered a bug! Something just isn't as it's supposed to be ...

EDIT: I just got a hunch. When you vassalize a nation you'll get half their tax income. However Steirmark has no tax income. They have gold income.
Though I have no proof, and nothing to hint that I might be right, I am convinced that someone made some hardcoding, so that you can't vassalize someone who can't pay you taxes.
I can't see any other solution to this problem.

I withdraw my 'It's a bug' exclamation - and calls it a feature instead.
 
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You can't vassalize a more powerful country can you?

I was sure you couldn't, and it would definetaly explain this, but i'm having second thoughts when i see sikker disagreeing with me..

Still, it would certainly explain this situation, especially why they are trying to vassalize you(they are more powerful, so they can vassalize).

Btw, i think the way power is measured is by measuring economy.
 
you are likely not to succeed if the other nation is powerful than than you, but the option will not be grayed out like it is here (well, I've certainly never seen it before)
 
Steiermark does have some tax income. The base tax isn't zero after all (if it were attrition there would be horrendous, not that it isn't bad already. So that isn't it. This is a real puzzler, I've never heard of such behaviour. It may be that your income has to be some fraction of the target's income. However, this is definitely news to me.

Just to cross all the t's and dot all the i's:
Sikker said:
There is absolutely no doubt. ALL 5 conditions were met - relations of 190+, no wars, no vassalizations to anyone, RM in existance (I even tried to break it and make a new one), and so forth.
Click to expand...
They are allied right? That's the one of the 5 you didn't mention, but I'm sure they start out allied.
 
Isaac Brock said:
Steiermark does have some tax income. The base tax isn't zero after all (if it were attrition there would be horrendous, not that it isn't bad already. So that isn't it. This is a real puzzler, I've never heard of such behaviour. It may be that your income has to be some fraction of the target's income. However, this is definitely news to me.
Click to expand...

Well, I am not all that much into attrition (and any other hard coding for that matter), but I though it was manpower that determined attrition for a province. - And when looking at a gold province isn't all income gold?
Oh well, whatever the EXACT reason is I'd be surprised if it wasn't the fact that Styria is a gold province that prevents vassalization...


Isaac Brock said:
They are allied right? That's the one of the 5 you didn't mention, but I'm sure they start out allied.
Click to expand...

Yep, I missed that one. They are allied - that's the 5th condtition. (With Salzburg and Tyrol)

EDIT: I've checked this thing again, and there IS a basic tax value in Steirmark (and all gold provinces) (as Isaac so kindly informed me :) )- so that part of my theory certainly did not hold.

If it is the wealth thing that does it, can someone tell me of a (very) small nation that starts off with VERY good relations of someone biiiig with the same faith so we can test this in praxsis?
 
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To vassalize, you must be economically superior, or else it will be greyed out. Playing as Aragon, I fulfilled all of the other requirements but could not vassalize Castille. But they could offer me vassalization.
 
Is that new since 1.05? I don't remember running into this, but wouldn't have in a long time anyway.

And yes it is taxvalue, not manpower that determines attrition.
 
I had bug like this to in MES.
While I was playing France and had abouy 15-20 provinces, Burgundy, Flanders aln England were my vassals and I cannot even try to dyplo-vassalize Blois-Champagne! They offer to me vassalization and I just cannot... I was in alliance, RM, +200, border, no wars, and they weren't vassal of anyone. I tried until Navarra anexed them by event. I even have screen with description od political situation of Blois-Champagne, their offert of vassalization to me and option "Offer Vassaliztion" isn't "yellow"...
 
A question: Who's the Emperor? I've had a situation where Austria, at 1/4 the size of Brandenburg (me), kindly offers to vassalize me, and I get no option to vassalize them. The only thing I could think of was that Austria got a bonus for being the Emperor (which they were at the time.) Just a shot in the dark, but it would make sense.
 
MacRaith said:
A question: Who's the Emperor? I've had a situation where Austria, at 1/4 the size of Brandenburg (me), kindly offers to vassalize me, and I get no option to vassalize them. The only thing I could think of was that Austria got a bonus for being the Emperor (which they were at the time.) Just a shot in the dark, but it would make sense.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure, but it might be that the AI will try just even if a nation is much bigger. There might also be a bous for the emperor that I don't know of.
 
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