Aztec and Cusco Feudalism

[Aritomo]

As the title states I'd like to see Aztec and Cusco (and possibly the Mayan states?) start the game with the Feudalism institution. I am no expert by any means, but from what I've been able to find this would be fairly historically accurate for the time frame of the game. The features stream I saw didn't show much of the New World so if this is already going to be a thing please let me know.

 

[Trin Tragula]

Neither state was more technologically advanced than their neighbors in 1444. If any state in the Andes the Chimu would be more advanced. Not enough to warrant 50% from their neighbors though.

 

[JKiller96]

Neither state was more technologically advanced than their neighbors in 1444. If any state in the Andes the Chimu would be more advanced. Not enough to warrant 50% from their neighbors though.

The Muisca were definitely the most advanced in the area, if anyone gets more advanced, it should be them. They had forging and other techs the others did not, like smelting. I think the Incas and Aztecs should probably be at least partly feudal before arrival of Europeans but is that even possible?

 

[Incompetent]

Neither state was more technologically advanced than their neighbors in 1444. If any state in the Andes the Chimu would be more advanced. Not enough to warrant 50% from their neighbors though.

What about making the whole Nahuatl/Maya/Inti regions have Feudalism, but give everyone in the Americas additional penalties until they finish their respective reform tracks? There was surely a big difference in technological/institutional sophistication of the American city-states in 1444 compared to the Tupinamba or Haida.

 

[huyderman]

If I don't remember incorrectly, Cusco, Aztec, et al. are already monarchies, so I think feudalism will start ticking up in their capital when the game starts? So by the time Europeans arrive, it would not be unlikely some of these will already have feudalism.

 

[Rayvok]

Could be special "institutions" that are only used to differentiate natives? Certainly not necessary for this or any expansion, but it would be a lot of fun to mod in "proto" or alternate institutions for non-feudal societies.

 

[TheBoozehammer]

Neither state was more technologically advanced than their neighbors in 1444. If any state in the Andes the Chimu would be more advanced. Not enough to warrant 50% from their neighbors though.

But could we maybe get Feudalism for all of the Inca, Maya, and Nahua nations? They were certainly more advanced than, say, the northern tribes.

 

[Darkath]

Neither state was more technologically advanced than their neighbors in 1444. If any state in the Andes the Chimu would be more advanced. Not enough to warrant 50% from their neighbors though.

But they were more advanced than tribal states elsewhere in america, right ? With no techgroups this difference must still be kept somehow.

IMO they should have penalties (start with tech 1, maluses until they reform etc.) but they should have feudalism and be able to spread it in the americas from the start.

 

[_Harbinger_]

A possible alternative is to have feudalism only be introduced to the Incas or Mayans when their respective tags are formed. This would work similar to how Timurids/Manchu switch tech groups whe they form Mughals/Qing.

 

[net.split]

The lack of feudalism is useful for representing the lack of proper beasts of burden throughout the continents, which was the main thing that kept their technology where it was. A lot of the things being referred to in this thread would be well represented with higher province development values.

 

[Darkath]

The lack of feudalism is useful for representing the lack of proper beasts of burden throughout the continents, which was the main thing that kept their technology where it was. A lot of the things being referred to in this thread would be well represented with higher province development values.

The point of this thread is that those civilizations should be better suited to teching up than tribal states. After all they had actual governments, cities and such. They probably might have adapted better than NA natives if they survived first contact.

Actually most of those issues could be solved with a few more institutions. I hope we can mod it.

 

[Randomblaofdoom]

A partial solution could be to give them blanket PARTIAL completion of feudalism in all the provinces. (e.g. 30% or whatever number works). This gives them a technological edge compared to less sedentary civilizations, while still starting them off with the appropriate tech penalty (though they would gain feudalism at an earlier date than otherwise this way, of course)

 

[royal_gryf]

This really needs to happen for all Andeans and Mesoamericans. Just because the first Europeans they encountered happened to be genocidal doesn't mean someone else would do the same. I'd say the main reason they are perceived as "primitive" is because they suffered from at least 2 plagues when the Europeans arrived and they were already weakened through bad relations in Mexico, poor land in the Maya area, and a massive civil war in the Andes. Just look at how Britain and France handled their encounters, not the most equal, but not even close to what Spain did.

It's really easy to see how things might not have been so bad but no, give them massive tech costs because they had plagues, don't let them build ships because they didn't use sails, and to top it off make exploration give free cbs on them because one nation was bloodthirsty.

The reforms add a lot of flavor though.

 

[net.split]

The point of this thread is that those civilizations should be better suited to teching up than tribal states. After all they had actual governments, cities and such. They probably might have adapted better than NA natives if they survived first contact.

Actually most of those issues could be solved with a few more institutions. I hope we can mod it.

I'm aware, and I'm arguing that good province development values are the preferred solution. Recall that provinces with high development get institution spread faster than provinces with low development. If we assume that colonized provinces bring along the host country's adopted institutions, that means that higher-developed native states will acquire those institutions more quickly than their sparsely-developed counterparts.