Balance of power and squads

[TheDarkside]

I feel like 4 slot squads is inefficient. Either that or the heroes/mobs are too strong for these squad sizes.

The thing is I cant really do much with 1 or 2 squads. I need 3 or 4 squads in one big group to effectively do dungeon crawls, otherwise I take too many losses or lose them all.

So the benefit of having squads in terms of micromanagement is lost when I still have to control 4 squads at once as one unit - teleporting 5 times (to include Bhaal) wherever I go.

Some solutions I feel could remedy this balance of power:

1. Keep squad size. Make your units more expensive, more powerful initially and gain more power at higher levels than currently.

2. Keep unit power same. Make squad sizes larger - say 6 or 8. Maybe have squad size something upgradeable like pay 25 treasure and increase size from 4 to 6 and so on...

3. Make mobs less powerful

 

[bumpinthenight]

I think if there was a leash on how often you can abuse the teleport feature a lot of the bizarre over-powered things in the game could have been tamed. It feels like that was an early design decision that was stubbornly kept long after its over-poweredness was realized.

 

[Zarco]

Nerf creatures comming from chest too.

 

[Colombo]

And what about that?

This idea support contemporary style of playing with some advancement towards DK:
Keep squads as they are.
Give unsquadded units freedom as in DK. They will eat themself, patrol dungeons, have some nice animations etc to give dungeon little soul. So you wouldn't have to fear mutch about those ladders and they could provide some basic defense and prepare themself (level up, keep fed) to use in squads.

Squads would thus effectively become attack units.

 

[TheDarkside]

And what about that?

This idea support contemporary style of playing with some advancement towards DK:
Keep squads as they are.
Give unsquadded units freedom as in DK. They will eat themself, patrol dungeons, have some nice animations etc to give dungeon little soul. So you wouldn't have to fear mutch about those ladders and they could provide some basic defense and prepare themself (level up, keep fed) to use in squads.

Squads would thus effectively become attack units.

I would like that very much

 

[bumpinthenight]

And what about that?

This idea support contemporary style of playing with some advancement towards DK:
Keep squads as they are.
Give unsquadded units freedom as in DK. They will eat themself, patrol dungeons, have some nice animations etc to give dungeon little soul. So you wouldn't have to fear mutch about those ladders and they could provide some basic defense and prepare themself (level up, keep fed) to use in squads.

Squads would thus effectively become attack units.

This is solidly headed in the right direction.

 

[Zarco]

And what about that?

This idea support contemporary style of playing with some advancement towards DK:
Keep squads as they are.
Give unsquadded units freedom as in DK. They will eat themself, patrol dungeons, have some nice animations etc to give dungeon little soul. So you wouldn't have to fear mutch about those ladders and they could provide some basic defense and prepare themself (level up, keep fed) to use in squads.

Squads would thus effectively become attack units.

+1

 

[Colombo]

It could be free part of DLC: Fun in a Dungeon with Theme Park stuff things to keep your minions busy
(Yay, I am popular)

 

[Madhabmatics]

And what about that?

This idea support contemporary style of playing with some advancement towards DK:
Keep squads as they are.
Give unsquadded units freedom as in DK. They will eat themself, patrol dungeons, have some nice animations etc to give dungeon little soul. So you wouldn't have to fear mutch about those ladders and they could provide some basic defense and prepare themself (level up, keep fed) to use in squads.

Squads would thus effectively become attack units.

This is genius!

 

[RedMattis]

And what about that?

This idea support contemporary style of playing with some advancement towards DK:
Keep squads as they are.
Give unsquadded units freedom as in DK. They will eat themself, patrol dungeons, have some nice animations etc to give dungeon little soul. So you wouldn't have to fear mutch about those ladders and they could provide some basic defense and prepare themself (level up, keep fed) to use in squads.

Squads would thus effectively become attack units.

Add me to the list of people thinking this would be a step in the right direction.

 

[TheAtreides84]

And what about that?

This idea support contemporary style of playing with some advancement towards DK:
Keep squads as they are.
Give unsquadded units freedom as in DK. They will eat themself, patrol dungeons, have some nice animations etc to give dungeon little soul. So you wouldn't have to fear mutch about those ladders and they could provide some basic defense and prepare themself (level up, keep fed) to use in squads.

Squads would thus effectively become attack units.

Neat idea. But I'm afraid that single minions would get stomped very easily, if even full squads have troubles overpowering random heroes.

 

[unmerged(664538)]

Neat idea. But I'm afraid that single minions would get stomped very easily, if even full squads have troubles overpowering random heroes.

I think a large part of the problem is a combination of people not building their squads to maximixe squad bonuses, and people probably aren't using traps properly.

I've been playing on Very Hard and force enemies to come through the main entry by quickly taking care of ladders, and alternate acid traps and slow traps. This either outright kills, or leaves heroes with around 10%-15% health which are then quickly finished off.

 

[The Apprentice]

I think a large part of the problem is a combination of people not building their squads to maximixe squad bonuses, and people probably aren't using traps properly.

I've been playing on Very Hard and force enemies to come through the main entry by quickly taking care of ladders, and alternate acid traps and slow traps. This either outright kills, or leaves heroes with around 10%-15% health which are then quickly finished off.

And a portion of people would find it easier to maximize squad bonuses if there was a manual that talked about the bloody things. I have mixed squads, and a bunch of text fires off whenever they attack things. I'm sure it is talking about abilities working or failing or something, but I haven't run across any base level explanation of their abilities yet.

What am I missing, or are you guys just reading the icon descriptions on the unit portraits and extrapolating?

 

[Cane]

Neat idea. But I'm afraid that single minions would get stomped very easily, if even full squads have troubles overpowering random heroes.

Yep unless they drastically change the minions or entrance to make it easier to defend, having single "unsquadded" minions won't do a thing since they die sooo easily.

 

[unmerged(664538)]

What am I missing?

In the squad menu on the right side. There is an icon summary in each squad row on the far right, and if you click on any member of a squad that has bonuses you will see them on the far right. If you curse over the icons a description of what the bonus does will come up.

 

[unmerged(664538)]

Yep unless they drastically change the minions or entrance to make it easier to defend, having single "unsquadded" minions won't do a thing since they die sooo easily.

Trap the entrance. At most there will be 3 paths out of the main dungeon entrance. If you start any map where they aren't already open,then don't finish building those hallways and leave it with as few possible paths as possible. If you alternate acid traps & slow traps they should either kill or severely weaken any heros.

 

[Foogsie]

As of Act 2/Chapter 4 or so, I've had plenty of success with just two squads+baal for clearing the dungeon while leaving 2 squads sitting around to deal with heroes (or to port to the dungeon if I need them). What kind of squad setup are you using? Overlord+Priest+Champ+Champ hasn't run into any issues for me. I pull all my squads for bosses but I figure that's pretty expected.

 

[unmerged(664538)]

Overlord+Priest+Champ+Champ hasn't run into any issues for me.

You aren't getting any squad bonus for that though. Replace one of the champs with the little 5-mushroom cost imp guy (basic unit) and you your whole squad gets berserk/enemy accuracy reduction and a chance to stun enemies.

 

[TheAtreides84]

I think a large part of the problem is a combination of people not building their squads to maximixe squad bonuses, and people probably aren't using traps properly.

I've been playing on Very Hard and force enemies to come through the main entry by quickly taking care of ladders, and alternate acid traps and slow traps. This either outright kills, or leaves heroes with around 10%-15% health which are then quickly finished off.

Yes, but ladder-busting is such a tedious routine, especially if you are crawling toward mission objective. This game needs major balancing.