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Incompetent

Euroweenie in Exile
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Sep 22, 2003
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One common complaint in EU2 is that once you get really big and powerful, nothing can stop you. Interregnum is especially prone to this, as the majors are small so it's easier for the player to surpass them. I think a big part of this problem is that huge empires in EU2, at least when player-built, are not generally afflicted by the problems which beset real empires at the time.

But we can remedy this with random events which only affect very large countries. Most of the 'hegemon-only' events would be bad, but it's not about punishing players for their success, it's to show that such power can't come for free. Generally the AI should get these as well, to rein in the crazy blobs it sometimes makes.

Examples:

Imperial Hubris (if at peace): your country is so confident of its supremacy that its nobles and officials have become complacent and corrupt. Lose tax value and infra investment, and get an ADM penalty.

Foreign powers conspire against you (if you have highish BB): DIP penalty; -relations with random countries (this might interfere somewhat with a DAing rampage).

Too much strain on the central bureaucracy (if you are quite centralised): lose centralisation.


Conversely, sometimes 'major' countries end up getting weak and being unable to recover. This is particularly true of AIs but also for novice players and players who get 'gangbanged' in multiplayer. While this is sometimes realistic, it doesn't generally make for a good game. So for 'crippled majors' we could have positive random events to help them back on their feet, eg:

The benefits of a small country (needs high stab, low cent): get the option of raising centralisation; ADM bonus.

Detente (if the country is at peace, and has very high BB but few provinces to show for it - the AI particularly needs this): get the option of spending money and diplomats to reduce BB

Economic reconstruction (high inflation): get the option of a large reduction in inflation at the cost of a small reduction in tax value, trade and infra (the government 'tightens its belt')

For convenience these events would be available for small minors too - as long as we're careful, it shouldn't turn them into 'tiny tigers'.


These events could have exciting choices and such, but you get the idea.

Specific majors could have particular positive and negative events as well - eg Eire has problems if it colonises too massive an area, or Byzantium reforms itself and gets support from other Christian countries if it gets badly pounded by the Caliphate. Also there could be special tensions if a bloated empire completely annexes a major, with a high risk of the ex-major declaring independence and re-establishing its old heartland, especially if the blob doesn't have appropriate culture, cores, religion and/or historical justification. For example if the Caliphate has for some reason conquered Brittany, its rule there is likely to be difficult and violently opposed.
 
A good idea, I think, but I have but one suggestion:

NEVER give minus BTV on random events in large amounts. If provinces drop in BTV a lot, they can hardly get up even if the nation is no longer bloated, or if the land is taken by another nation.

Which only serves to make the big country stay big (noone wants it's land) but very weak, while historically it'd be shrinking very fast if it got that weak.
 
Avernite said:
A good idea, I think, but I have but one suggestion:

NEVER give minus BTV on random events in large amounts. If provinces drop in BTV a lot, they can hardly get up even if the nation is no longer bloated, or if the land is taken by another nation.

Which only serves to make the big country stay big (noone wants it's land) but very weak, while historically it'd be shrinking very fast if it got that weak.

A huge country would get a few of these events, but by virtue of their size the average impact on a particular province would be very low. Getting double-digit aggregate hits to BTV looks very nasty, but if it's spread over 300 provinces, it's hardly going to turn the empire into a wasteland. And if the empire is in a state of decay for decades, it'll be chipped away by internal problems, never mind jealous rivals (who will attack anyway because such a huge empire will generally have made many enemies - if nothing else other countries will want their cores back, and the BTV drops will only make them get in more of a hurry to grab them before they degrade!)

Small countries could also get some tax-raising events to balance it out. These would have to be carefully controlled though, as a '+1 tax in random province' event can have a huge impact on a 1-province minor - if the country is very small, the tax rise should probably be a 'B' option that has costs attached.

The economic value of a region is not innate, and depends on how well it is governed. If a culture of corruption, inefficient production methods, laziness or refusal to pay high taxes develops there, it can be hard to eradicate even if new rulers take over. Witness for example how much of the modern world is mired in poverty despite abundant human and natural resources, even if the current government is a good one, while other places with uninspired governments and poor natural resources have managed to stay rich because of their history.
 
There is lot more reasons why many regions are poor, than just blaming them.

And if somebody has 300 provs - he surely deserves one civil war after another. :D

Also I think we could put penalties to size of country - more prov, less centralisation. But already starting with some 20 provs. And if somebody is more than 60 provs he can not be more centralised than +2. :mad:

I proposed that if country eats too much of its nonstate cultures, it randoms them civil war...
 
Ahmed AA said:
There is lot more reasons why many regions are poor, than just blaming them.

And if somebody has 300 provs - he surely deserves one civil war after another. :D

Also I think we could put penalties to size of country - more prov, less centralisation. But already starting with some 20 provs. And if somebody is more than 60 provs he can not be more centralised than +2. :mad:

I proposed that if country eats too much of its nonstate cultures, it randoms them civil war...

I'm not saying that people have themselves to blame if they're poor, but that internal problems over the scale of a region can greatly impair the economy of the area, and these problems can persist even when their original source (such as a poorly-managed empire) is removed.

The last one is impossible, I'm afraid: Civil War, the king of the random events, is the only one that's hard-coded and unmoddable. But the 'more provs => more decentralisation' is exactly what I had in mind. Beyond a certain point vassals and allies should be more useful than a direct takeover, if you want to spread your influence.
 
There are a LOT of anti-big-country events out there. We have a few already in the game. If you want more, please design and submit or grab them from another mod (like the AGCEEP). Likewise there are events that punish high BB (usually associated with being big).

Matty
 
MattyG said:
There are a LOT of anti-big-country events out there. We have a few already in the game. If you want more, please design and submit or grab them from another mod (like the AGCEEP). Likewise there are events that punish high BB (usually associated with being big).

Matty

Good idea. What do you think of giving undersized/crippled countries (particularly AI majors fallen on hard times) a leg up?
 
Incompetent said:
Good idea. What do you think of giving undersized/crippled countries (particularly AI majors fallen on hard times) a leg up?

The ai-only events are pretty nice already. Check them out.

But, other than that, I think that we ought definitely NOT help fallen would-be majors. That kind of variation is what we are hoping for. And, they still get their good leaders, those certainly help
 
I have a severe problem with AGCEEP anti big country events. RUssia is a bear to play later on. you have the cores, you do not have the gold because the siberian provinces in the corridor ar dirt poor except for a few that you build up for gold.

Then bam wham thank you mam an event that triggers when you have more than 80 counties whacks you with a general rebellion worse than the time of troubles.

really really pissed me off. most of the time i only occupy one side of the corridor, either top or bottom and then do not occupy that siberia part that goes north from the middle of the corridor. this drops me to just below 60 provinces.

Maybe if the event differentiated between trading posts and settlements

or maybe differentiated based on which country places settlements in which places (maybe not that is shoehorning)

either way

this event seriously detracted from AGCEEP inho