Bigger Drops mod (needs Mission Control)

[unclecid]

Axterix13 said: ↑
... The short of it is that it would require a major overhaul of the Leopard to make such a thing possible...
Agreed, but it seems that such overhauls were not uncommon.
Sarna has this to say:

...Beyond production variants, it has been observed that the Leopard can be modified for a variety of purposes ranging from tanker craft to hospital ship.[6] Typical refits or modifications include a tank carrier version capable of carrying 12 light vehicles. Individual ships have also been known to carry an infantry complement, from the context presumably by turning one or both aerospace fighter cubicles into an infantry bay. It is also not unknown for Leopard owners to remove some or all of the 'Mech and aerospace fighter cubicles for 150 tons of cargo space each, to the point of simply using the Leopard as a cargo ship.

I'm guessing that like most cargo focused aero/space craft, dropships are basically a pressurizable exterior shell divided up internally with light partitions. It specifically notes that the mech and fighter areas are divided into individually removable cubicles.
Given the diverse uses noted above, it seems reasonable to assume that it wouldn't be impossible to open up the central area to one large cavernous area holding the six bays.
I don't play MWO, but that seems like what the pics of their bays I have seen seem to indicate.

Mordray said: ↑
Uh... the first upgrade you get from the Bigger Drops series of upgrades is a second, barely functional, leopard... sadly the art doesn't show it... it's a stealthy pile I'll give it that.
Hmm, I have the first upgrade in Bigger Drops, but I don't recall that it mentioned a second leopard.
Certainly no visual evidence of it.
I guess I just assumed that the upgrade included modifications to help you get more guys into (and out of) the Lep.
I'll have to check this when I get home.

Last edited: Today at 05:50

@Gurachn

if you are playing BTA they for some reason have felt the need to remove the fluff about a second leopard.
no idea why.
if you look at the actual standalone mod on github there bitss of fluff/lore with each upgrade from Yang just like with the Argo upgrades.
the very first one is about them finding a leopard on the cheap that supposedly was still flying when it was parked.
and you go thru the process of upgrading/repairing systems on it until you can drop a full on second lance.

eventually BD is going to be folded into Mission Control.
and from what i have been told....adding a second leopard to travel scenes with the argo is not out of the question.

 

[Gurachn]

@unclecid
I'm currently running a Frankensteinish mish-mash of mods mainly based on BEX, but yeah it does not include any reference to second Leo fluff.

To be honest, I'm happy it doesn't.
I'm not a lore hound trying to nitpick. I'm just keen to build a bit of immersion. I like having what I see happening on the screen, match what I understand to be possible within the game setting.
I love the idea of having a second Leo, but only if it can be built into the action.
When you can only see one dropship land, and 8 mechs pop out, I start getting a kind of clown car vibe.
Also, it seems to me that getting an additional priceless and rare dropship should entail at least a challenging and flavorful Flashpoint. Certainly not just a standard upgrade!

Currently I only have the first Argo upgrades, allowing up to 6 mech drops.
The Leopard is known to be very configurable, with even a cargo only variant, so it doesn't seem implausible that they could replace aero cubicles with mech ones, and allow access to the doors.
Leo lands - guys at the door hit the ground - guys in the nose take 3 quick steps to the door, and out. Just as the DS pilot guns the engines skyward...
Works for me.

It would be great to have 2 functional dropships. Hopefully CWolf can work some of his magic, and get us a second well integrated Leo.
For now though, I guess i'll hold off on upgrading to a full extra lance.

 

[unclecid]

i get the immersion bit....but for me i just look the other way just like i do with the bottomless cargo hold.
but like i said....i get it...no worries.

however the leopard isnt rare and priceless.
thats jumpships.
dropships are still being made in many places throughout the IS and periphery
heck even the Magistracy of Canopus makes leopards.
they are a simple design apparently and there are a messload of spare parts for most things
the leopard is the most numerous and most used dropship anywhere including with the Clans.

 

[Gurachn]

...however the leopard isnt rare and priceless.
thats jumpships.
dropships are still being made in many places throughout the IS and periphery
heck even the Magistracy of Canopus makes leopards...

I stand corrected.
But even if they are as ubiquitous as the C-130s of today, they are still space ships - complex and expensive investments. The closest 'canon' figures I could find put the cost at somewhere around 200 Mil C-bills.
Not chump change.

Personally, I'd like to see a 2-4 mission Flashpoint leading up to getting the second Leo.

 

[JamieWolf]

Personally, I'd like to see a 2-4 mission Flashpoint leading up to getting the second Leo.

This could be done, if someone were to create the flashpoint and then modify/create ship upgrades that require the flashpoint to have been completed to appear. Heck in theory the code supports allowing events to increase or even decrease the drop abilities.

 

[unclecid]

@Gurachn noticed something today and went poking around.....
it should be possible to have a second leo land when you drop into a mission and probably for extraction too.
but...its eye candy and probably wouldnt be high on list of to-do's for a while.

 

[Gurachn]

@Gurachn noticed something today and went poking around.....
it should be possible to have a second leo land when you drop into a mission and probably for extraction too.
but...its eye candy and probably wouldnt be high on list of to-do's for a while.

@unclecid Well done!
That sounds very interesting indeed.
Mixing Mission Control/Bigger drops with a second Leo on screen, and wrapping it in a cool Flashpoint, would be sweet.
People have been begging for ability to drop a second lance, and this combo would be a very slick way of doing that.

Yeah, it's only eye candy.
But it would be pretty damn tasty eye candy, methinks!

Care to share a little more on how this might be accomplished?
There may be a reader (with better modding skills than myself) who might be keen to have a go.

I don't imagine I'm the only one who'd like a chance to fight for a second Leo and be able to drop two full lances.

 

[Sigil]

@unclecid
ITo be honest, I'm happy it doesn't.
I'm not a lore hound trying to nitpick. I'm just keen to build a bit of immersion. I like having what I see happening on the screen, match what I understand to be possible within the game setting.
I love the idea of having a second Leo, but only if it can be built into the action.
When you can only see one dropship land, and 8 mechs pop out, I start getting a kind of clown car vibe.
Also, it seems to me that getting an additional priceless and rare dropship should entail at least a challenging and flavorful Flashpoint. Certainly not just a standard upgrade!

By canon, the Leopard can be reconfigured to carry 6 BattleMechs by re-purposing the 2 aerospace bays.

Personally, it would be more canon-friendly to replace the Argo entirely with a Union-class DropShip with a capacity of 12 'Mechs. Some animations for it are already in the game, so while I have no idea how much work it would be, it would sure be cool. EDIT: The Union class has 8 Bay door, 4 for 'Mechs, 2 for Aerospace fighters and 2 for Cargo.

 

[Eximar]

Sarna and all the artwork I typically see say a Union has 4 doors for mechs, which makes sense with the 4 landing struts for them to be in between.

 

[Dark Khaos]

Technically, there are six doors: 2 for the four mechs in Bay 1, 2 for the eight mechs in Bay 2 and 2 for Aerospace Fighters.

Source: TRO3025 Revised p180

 

[Sigil]

Technically, there are six doors: 2 for the four mechs in Bay 1, 2 for the eight mechs in Bay 2 and 2 for Aerospace Fighters.

Source: TRO3025 Revised p180

Sarna and all the artwork I typically see say a Union has 4 doors for mechs, which makes sense with the 4 landing struts for them to be in between.

Exact details on many BattleTech units have fluctuated over the years Regardless, it would be possible to land and unload up to 12 'Mechs, or to drop up to 12 'Mechs using DropPods. A canon alternative to the Argo for Mission Control/Bigger Drops.

 

[unclecid]

Exact details on many BattleTech units have fluctuated over the years Regardless, it would be possible to land and unload up to 12 'Mechs, or to drop up to 12 'Mechs using DropPods. A canon alternative to the Argo for Mission Control/Bigger Drops.

when in doubt refer to FASA 1619 Dropships and Jumpships the original source for aero stats.
i have seen misprinted info but never fluctuations in dropship capacity over the years.

and yes it should be possible to re purpose urban map drop pods for use elswhere.

but it would be just as easy to use a second leopard.
with Bigger Drops when you drop say 5 meks but only have direct control for 4 the 5th lands in a 2nd leo as a AI controlled ally
that should also be able to be used to drop a second lance under play control.

 

[Gurachn]

... with Bigger Drops when you drop say 5 meks but only have direct control for 4 the 5th lands in a 2nd leo as a AI controlled ally that should also be able to be used to drop a second lance under play control.

I currently use Bigger Drops, and I haven't seen a way to drop 5, but only control 4.
How do you set the extra mechs to AI control?
I have never seen a second Leo on landing.

Discussions on the Union class are interesting, because we know there are Union models in the game (though I'm not sure if they can be utilized), but to be honest I think they look bloody ugly, and I'd much rather have two Leos.

 

[unclecid]

I currently use Bigger Drops, and I haven't seen a way to drop 5, but only control 4.
How do you set the extra mechs to AI control?
I have never seen a second Leo on landing.

Discussions on the Union class are interesting, because we know there are Union models in the game (though I'm not sure if they can be utilized), but to be honest I think they look bloody ugly, and I'd much rather have two Leos.

on the argo upgrade screen.....
the first box of upgrades allows one to add extra meks to the drop
the second box of upgrade is for is command and control..these allow the player to control the extra meks..without these the extras are AI
the third box increases total weight of both lances together...you start at 400 and can go up from there.

not all of these upgrades are available all at once....some are dependent upon certain argo upgrades

as for the second leopard....sometimes the allies are already there.
however at other times they drop right after you and may be just off screen depending on you point of view at the time.
my pov is always set at max zoom out unless i scroll in..so i guess i see it more often

 

[Gurachn]

on the argo upgrade screen.....
the first box of upgrades allows one to add extra meks to the drop
the second box of upgrade is for is command and control..these allow the player to control the extra meks..without these the extras are AI
the third box increases total weight of both lances together...you start at 400 and can go up from there. not all of these upgrades are available all at once....some are dependent upon certain argo upgrades...

Hmm, I currently only have the first upgrade, that allows for 6 Mech drops.
The boxes for Command and Control, and Total Weight are empty, meaning all mechs are under my control.
Perhaps my installation is faulty and those features aren't working? I'm running this under BEX but I suspect that I may have pulled this from BTA, so perhaps something is not hooking up right.

Or do I just need to upgrade something else to unlock these areas?

 

[JamieWolf]

BTA uses its own set of upgrades, that do not include AI controlled lance members

 

[Gurachn]

BTA uses its own set of upgrades, that do not include AI controlled lance members

Yes, it also pulls out all the fluff relating to the second Leo.
I'm liking the setup so far, but perhaps I should install the latest full version to get a feel for all these extra features.

 

[bloodydoves]

Hmm, I currently only have the first upgrade, that allows for 6 Mech drops.
The boxes for Command and Control, and Total Weight are empty, meaning all mechs are under my control.
Perhaps my installation is faulty and those features aren't working? I'm running this under BEX but I suspect that I may have pulled this from BTA, so perhaps something is not hooking up right.

You pulled my implementation of the BiggerDrops upgrades out of BTA without understanding them fully. The way BD is coded is that it provides hooks for three kinds of upgrades: an extra drop slot, an extra AI controlled mech, and an extra player controlled mech. What I did for BTA was make a single upgrade that gives you the drop slot and the player control instantly. I did this because the allied AI is INCREDIBLY stupid (this is a vanilla thing, not a MC/BD thing). I felt that made the most gameplay sense and was the most fun path to take.

As for the fluff, I removed RT's second leopard fluff because I didn't see it as necessary really. I'm happy to let the user come to whatever conclusion they want about how/why you get the extra units and didn't see a need to get too detailed about it. Ultimately, the extra units are a gameplay consideration first and a lore consideration second. I do agree though that I would actually like the Leopard replaced by a Union one day (mostly because I really like the Union and think it needs more love).

 

[unclecid]

hopefully the stand alone Bigger Drops gets an update that will return its functionality in FPs.
some folks like myself really enjoy cranking things up.
but the last update to BD removed that ability.

 

[Gurachn]

...As for the fluff, I removed RT's second leopard fluff because I didn't see it as necessary really. I'm happy to let the user come to whatever conclusion they want about how/why you get the extra units and didn't see a need to get too detailed about it. Ultimately, the extra units are a gameplay consideration first and a lore consideration second. I do agree though that I would actually like the Leopard replaced by a Union one day (mostly because I really like the Union and think it needs more love).

I understand and fully agree with your implementation.
The idea of dropping any of my guys under AI control sounds like a recipe for frustration, and I get annoyed if the fluff contradicts what I am seeing on the screen.
I'm afraid I can't agree on the Union though. I have never liked the look of those Humpty dumpty eggs.
Having an extra Leo would be my choice.