Burdundian succession after Charles

[TeeWee]

Probably a very popular subject that has been answered a few times before, but the big Burgundy-development thread is hard to follow if one is not a mod-developer

Anyway, tonight I was playing my first real AGCEEP Burgundy game (v1.55). And it was going along really well for I had thoroughly beaten France and England. I'd staged a proper William the Conqueror style invasion after my allies Castille DoW'd England and France was confined to the area below the Loire and west of Languedoc and Lyonnais. Both were my vassals and things were well in the realms of the most ambitious House in Western Europe. Then, Charles the Rash died on me... Ooops...

Well, first off, most of my french lands fell back into the hands of France. Sure, I can sort of rationalise it: while the Kingdom of France wasn't really the France of former glory, Louis was still King and perhaps seized on it on a political gambit. Though where he begat the military clout to do so is a bit of a mystery. A "playing" of the instability due to a uncertain inheritance perhaps. (Aside: how do I evade this horrific seceding of half the lands? By not letting the Dauphin get crowned in the Joan of Arc/Rheims-sequence? Because after that, there is really no way that France will not exist, even if you defy Charles at Arras.)

But the core: how does the marriage sequence work? I get to pick between: Habsburg, France (Ends the game) and a German candidate. If I pick c, the event files give me 2 options: Kleve or Pfalz. I have a strong strategic preference for Pfalz, because the Rhine Palatinate would link the Low countries to Alsace and Franche-Comte. But I got offered Kleve first... Is there a way to force Pfalz from coming up (apart from being at war with Kleve?). Or can I refuse Kleve and get offered Pfalz instead?

 

[Toio]

Probably a very popular subject that has been answered a few times before, but the big Burgundy-development thread is hard to follow if one is not a mod-developer

Anyway, tonight I was playing my first real AGCEEP Burgundy game (v1.55). And it was going along really well for I had thoroughly beaten France and England. I'd staged a proper William the Conqueror style invasion after my allies Castille DoW'd England and France was confined to the area below the Loire and west of Languedoc and Lyonnais. Both were my vassals and things were well in the realms of the most ambitious House in Western Europe. Then, Charles the Rash died on me... Ooops...

Well, first off, most of my french lands fell back into the hands of France. Sure, I can sort of rationalise it: while the Kingdom of France wasn't really the France of former glory, Louis was still King and perhaps seized on it on a political gambit. Though where he begat the military clout to do so is a bit of a mystery. A "playing" of the instability due to a uncertain inheritance perhaps. (Aside: how do I evade this horrific seceding of half the lands? By not letting the Dauphin get crowned in the Joan of Arc/Rheims-sequence? Because after that, there is really no way that France will not exist, even if you defy Charles at Arras.)

But the core: how does the marriage sequence work? I get to pick between: Habsburg, France (Ends the game) and a German candidate. If I pick c, the event files give me 2 options: Kleve or Pfalz. I have a strong strategic preference for Pfalz, because the Rhine Palatinate would link the Low countries to Alsace and Franche-Comte. But I got offered Kleve first... Is there a way to force Pfalz from coming up (apart from being at war with Kleve?). Or can I refuse Kleve and get offered Pfalz instead?

you gain historic lands from some events and you loose lands with others...........i see no issue

In the marriage sequence - If you pick C (german suitor) then event 137038 (KLE) fires before 137047 (PFA) . You can prevent this by going to war against KLE prior to the event firing.

I do agree that for a human there should be another event which gets you to choose action a ( 137038 ) or action b (137047)

 

[Crookback]

At some point - and probably quite a way off as I have lots of stuff to finish first - I intend to script the possibility of Mary marrying the duke of Clarence (George Plantagenet), as was the original suggestion, so as to strengthen the Anglo-Burgundian alliance.

However, the king of England refused as it would have given the duke (his brother) and his issue a claim to his own throne, which of course could have turned out to be a very dangerous move indeed.

Thus, we end up with Mary marrying a Habsburg.

At some point, possibly well into the next decade, I shall get round to it.

 

[Bordic]

you gain historic lands from some events and you loose lands with others...........i see no issue

In the marriage sequence - If you pick C (german suitor) then event 137038 (KLE) fires before 137047 (PFA) . You can prevent this by going to war against KLE prior to the event firing.

I do agree that for a human there should be another event which gets you to choose action a ( 137038 ) or action b (137047)

Why not picking B in event 137038 and waiting for 137047 then? That was the reason why the sequence is as it is. well, iirc... o

Or can I refuse Kleve and get offered Pfalz instead?

Yes, pick B and then wait for the second event if the trigger meets the requirements, of course.

 

[TeeWee]

Thanks all for your answers. I'll give that a shot later (had a CTD before I could save the game yesterday anyway).

As an aside, out of curiosity I diploannexed France this time just in time before Charles croaked (it worked). This time 'round, I have a mega-Burgundy with no marriage events, just normal historical Habsburg monarchs (I think). I can see in the event files a sequence for No France and HYW-win for England. But in this case, I managed to send the English pretender back across the channel instead without a HYW-final victory so there's no event sequence at all. Is this correct? I guess it makes sense, because now there is no large, external threat left to threaten Burgundy even if Charles dies; the only problem is internal and that's dealt with by revolt risk and stability hits. Hmmm... using this brain does help sometimes

 

[Laur]

A long long time ago, when I used to play this game more seriously, and still had interest in European countries, I remember there was also an option in which Mary wed the prince of Nassau, which eventually led to Burgundy becoming Netherlands. This was a much easier way of forming the United Provinces than trying to survive as Brabant or (I think) Guelders. Is this sequence still in the game? If not, why?

Laur

 

[unmerged(40707)]

No this sequence is not in the game. Only answer I have is there is no reason fo a Duchy to lose such power and accept a different form of government without revolts. And this is what can happen if Netherlands revolt from Burgundy...

 

[Laur]

No this sequence is not in the game. Only answer I have is there is no reason fo a Duchy to lose such power and accept a different form of government without revolts. And this is what can happen if Netherlands revolt from Burgundy...

Then why do the duchies of Brabant, Gueldres or Holland have this option? I believe a weak Burgundy should have the option of marrying into the house of Nassau and peacefully forming the Netherlands.

 

[unmerged(40707)]

Why not... but mentioned countries are Dutch minors from start. This is not exactly the same.

 

[Laur]

They may be minors, but they are still duchies, just like Burgundy. If Burgundy becomes the Kingdom of Lotharingia and expands into the HRE, then it would seem strange for the Lotharingian monarchs to renounce their power and prestige and become a republic. However, if Burgundy is a duchy reduced to a few provinces in the low countries, its power decentralized due to the privileges it had to give to the cities, I see no problem for the ahistoricall duke of Burgundy-Nassau to throw in his weight behind the formation of the Dutch Republic.

 

[ConjurerDragon]

They may be minors, but they are still duchies, just like Burgundy. If Burgundy becomes the Kingdom of Lotharingia and expands into the HRE, then it would seem strange for the Lotharingian monarchs to renounce their power and prestige and become a republic. However, if Burgundy is a duchy reduced to a few provinces in the low countries, its power decentralized due to the privileges it had to give to the cities, I see no problem for the ahistoricall duke of Burgundy-Nassau to throw in his weight behind the formation of the Dutch Republic.

If I understood Yoda right then he did not lay weight on "minor" but "dutch" in his words about the "dutch minors" when he wrote that. Burgundy starts the game as a FRENCH duchy and only later by events has the option to move it´s capital to the netherlands (or go after the french crown). The other duchys mentioned are dutch duchys right from the start of the game.

 

[Crookback]

If I understood Yoda right then he did not lay weight on "minor" but "dutch" in his words about the "dutch minors" when he wrote that. Burgundy starts the game as a FRENCH duchy and only later by events has the option to move it´s capital to the netherlands (or go after the french crown). The other duchys mentioned are dutch duchys right from the start of the game.

Yes, Burgundy is a French duchy, with the possibility of becoming an imperial kingdom.

The Dutch minors are Holland, Zeeland, Gelre, Frisia, &c.