Capitalist, the sock puppets of Socialism

[lizardo]

Ok with VrickyVIP, I have Chili.

The population insists on a Lasyfair/free trade government which of course starves the government of cash and I can't build anything.

So I scraped for my capitalist. This is silly. Only a socialist government can afford to build a capitalist.

Once built, all he did was sit there and buy commodities. Even at tax rate 0 he never saved enough to buy a railroad or a factory.

If I could switch back to state capitalism and protection I could start something. But what then is the point of having a capitalist that won't capitalize?

Wouldn't it be nice if market style governments would allow Capitalists to spawn naturally with out requiring the state to create them??

 

[Ankios]

Ok with VrickyVIP, I have Chili.

The population insists on a Lasyfair/free trade government which of course starves the government of cash and I can't build anything.

So I scraped for my capitalist. This is silly. Only a socialist government can afford to build a capitalist.

Once built, all he did was sit there and buy commodities. Even at tax rate 0 he never saved enough to buy a railroad or a factory.

If I could switch back to state capitalism and protection I could start something. But what then is the point of having a capitalist that won't capitalize?

Wouldn't it be nice if market style governments would allow Capitalists to spawn naturally with out requiring the state to create them??

How did you built your economy ?

Do you have enough capitalists ?

And I disagree with you. Laissez faire and Interventionism economies are the best to build capitalists, as it is a fair amount of investment that is really fast interesting by the amont of investments. In other systems, they almost do not invest in the economy.

AND very important, high taxes on trade will stop Capitalists from investing. If goods are too much high, they will have lower money as their first goal is to buy for themselves. And they won't invest as this is way too expensive for them to buy the necessary goods to build something.

You want them to be effective ? You need lots of them AND very low taxes on revenues AND on international trade.

 

[lizardo]

Tax on poor is 49.2
Tax on mid is 32.2
Tax on Rich is 0

Education and crime at max.
Social is trivial min and health, set at 0
Military is max (for prestige gain and readiness to fight of neighbor)
Army is at 50%
Navy is at 0 (boats in queue at 100%)

Tariff is set to free trade max.

No existing factories or railroads. Have exp rail tech.

Democracy, liberty, liberal party. laz fair/free trade/lim cit

It's generating about 1.5$ a day in tax.

The Capitalist pop is 51k, that's like a third of my whole population. He's meeting all the first two need levels, and regularly meeting the third high level. Cycles between 60-80 cash on hand.

I have to build up enough cash to buy the first craftmen and clerks, if and when the capitalist builds anything so I need some reasonable tax.

I could drop crime and mil to zero, but, could be unpleasant.

He just sits there. buying toys.

 

[Ankios]

Tax on poor is 49.2
Tax on mid is 32.2
Tax on Rich is 0

Education and crime at max.
Social is trivial min and health, set at 0
Military is max (for prestige gain and readiness to fight of neighbor)
Army is at 50%
Navy is at 0 (boats in queue at 100%)

Tariff is set to free trade max.

No existing factories or railroads. Have exp rail tech.

Democracy, liberty, liberal party. laz fair/free trade/lim cit

It's generating about 1.5$ a day in tax.

The Capitalist pop is 51k, that's like a third of my whole population. He's meeting all the first two need levels, and regularly meeting the third high level. Cycles between 60-80 cash on hand.

I have to build up enough cash to buy the first craftmen and clerks, if and when the capitalist builds anything so I need some reasonable tax.

I could drop crime and mil to zero, but, could be unpleasant.

He just sits there. buying toys.

Well... I have to say besides Japan I never played a non developped country... You just proved me here that at least some are not really playable

 

[unmerged(77251)]

Tariff is set to free trade max.

That's what's killing your capis income. Reduce tariffs to 0, and watch their income.

As of your question: two later game economic inventions called 'management strategies' convert each 50% of your aristocrats to capitalists. So there is a way to 'spawn' capitalists, though it's way to late to be usefull for the player.

 

[lizardo]

ick, if I cut that I'll go negative. I've had higher tariffs in other nations and my capitalists spent regularly.

Ok, I cut the tariff down from its abysmally low free-market max and only when I was subsidizing 10$ or more a day did the capitalist begin to save. Not sustainable. Either it's hopeless to be lazyfair or there's some tweak I missed.

-------
I've been trying a few of them (little weird nations). Your expectations have to be realistic.

For some, the goal is just to be civilized. Some are impossible to civilize because the rules are for larger nations.

Haiti became a great power and satellited other GPs.

It's possible to conquer China with Tibet.

 

[Raph]

For many countries, especially those who aren't very developed by the start, it's not really useful to go capitalist in the beginning. You'll need a period of state industrialization to actually build a earning base for your capitalists, then switch to capitalists to fuel the mid-game industrialization. Then, in the late game, I usually like to go socialist to really tailor my economy to my needs instead of the more random results your cappies will give you.

 

[henryjai]

For small countries I always think manual building start is far better than trying to get a capitalist.

you get some machine parts from techs, around 15-20 + those are enough for you to set up

fabric factory <-safe investment
glass factory <-also safe investment but don't provide much income
wine factory <- these makes good money if you could get the glass
liquor factory <- same as wine, great one to build

after building each of these you still can build railroad over your whole country without importing any machine parts. If your country is small, it certainly don't cost much compared to promoting a capitalist (and wait like hell)

 

[Gustave Amon]

I can honestly say that I have never found glass and its related industries to ever be particularly profitable, you're better off investing those MPs in lumber mills.

 

[unmerged(37660)]

What Dysken said. Also if you have coal, cement factory will always make you money.

Hammer

 

[henryjai]

I can honestly say that I have never found glass and its related industries to ever be particularly profitable, you're better off investing those MPs in lumber mills.

Some factories even lose money...

some would never lose.

Cement is good when you have coal, it's also good even you don't have coal.

Glass is too unprofitable but it's better than grain farms(just slightly)

Wine and liquor are good factories that would give you a reasonable income even if you import the glass. Also, wine is widely used in the game as a resources for pop conversions, troop-building... etc etc. Of course, cements are used when you build railroads/factories.

Fabrics are slightly better than the glass factories and is actually not a bad investment if you produce the raw materials and run a protectionalism government.

Regular clothes is a bit risky investment in early game, especially as a minor.

I only man the glass factories when running a economy with lassie faire parties.

Steel factories are generally unprofitable in early game if you don't produce both iron and coal and run a protectionalism economy. Generally it started to be more profitable when there started to have plenty of steamer factories.

Ammunition and small arms factories are almost non-profitable early in the game, especially when it's so peaceful.

 

[Raph]

Some factories even lose money...

some would never lose.

Cement is good when you have coal, it's also good even you don't have coal.

Glass is too unprofitable but it's better than grain farms(just slightly)

Wine and liquor are good factories that would give you a reasonable income even if you import the glass. Also, wine is widely used in the game as a resources for pop conversions, troop-building... etc etc. Of course, cements are used when you build railroads/factories.

Fabrics are slightly better than the glass factories and is actually not a bad investment if you produce the raw materials and run a protectionalism government.

Regular clothes is a bit risky investment in early game, especially as a minor.

I only man the glass factories when running a economy with lassie faire parties.

Steel factories are generally unprofitable in early game if you don't produce both iron and coal and run a protectionalism economy. Generally it started to be more profitable when there started to have plenty of steamer factories.

Ammunition and small arms factories are almost non-profitable early in the game, especially when it's so peaceful.

I'd say early on, build the basic factories. They cost the least money and you'll need their outputs as inputs for other more expensive factories that you'll let the cappies build later on. So: lumber, fabric, cement, glass; especially lumber and fabric (all those are 1 mp each, you'll want steel too but that's 10 mp). That'll set you for the consumer goods production trees which you'll need to promote POPs later.

 

[henryjai]

I'd say early on, build the basic factories. They cost the least money and you'll need their outputs as inputs for other more expensive factories that you'll let the cappies build early on. So: lumber, fabric, cement, glass; especially lumber and fabric (all those are 1 mp each, you'll want steel too but that's 10 mp). That'll set you for the consumer goods production trees which you'll need to promote POPs later.

Steel is very bad as you also need to leave some for railroads.


building railroads is very profitable, I would even consider going into debts to build rails.

 

[Raph]

building railroads is very profitable, I would even consider going into debts to build rails.

...which is why it's nice to have a steel factory so that you don't have to import it to build railroads.

 

[fbaker4]

Import or not, you're still 'buying' it by not selling it on the world market. Unless you have teh kapitalists, nothing is free.

I also find that for some Unciv's like those in SE Asia, jumping directly to furniture and clothes, then luxury furniture and luxury clothes can make sense - if you can own the inputs, you can own the outputs...

 

[Raph]

Import or not, you're still 'buying' it by not selling it on the world market. Unless you have teh kapitalists, nothing is free.

If you produce steel, it's cheaper (usually) than if you import it since you only pay for the raw materials who should be cheaper than the finished product. If this wasn't the case, factories wouldn't be profitable...

 

[Gustave Amon]

If this wasn't the case, factories wouldn't be profitable...

You can end up with >100% efficiency on a lvl 1 factory so that doesn't have to be true.

 

[henryjai]

...which is why it's nice to have a steel factory so that you don't have to import it to build railroads.

how do you have any Machine parts left for rails?

 

[Raph]

You can end up with >100% efficiency on a lvl 1 factory so that doesn't have to be true.

Or, that's exactly what I said: if the value of raw materials is higher than the value of the processed good, your factory isn't profitable. However, this is usually not the case.

But, yes, early game you usually don't want to spend ten precius machine parts on a steel factory, just as I said in my earlier post...

 

[henryjai]

Or, that's exactly what I said: if the value of raw materials is higher than the value of the processed good, your factory isn't profitable. However, this is usually not the case.

But, yes, early game you usually don't want to spend ten precius machine parts on a steel factory, just as I said in my earlier post...

also, free-trade makes "import-process-export" quite favourable, especially you're playing puny country like Greece(I must say it's really pathetic, no populations, no natural resources). Early on steel factories are not efficient enough to produce enough steel for profitable exports if you import both iron and coal. Plus 10 machine parts is too much.

Also, you need to compare whether you make more money in factories or just doing agriculture would give you more money... Sometimes building a railroad is better than a factory. (e.g. you don't convert your labourers in precious metal mines to make glass)