Capture of baghdad/End of Caliphate

[MattyG]

This is a question I think I raised earlier, though maybe only in an email with Calipah and I forget the end of the discussion.

The Caliphate is conquered or Diploannaex by another muslim country. As the greatesr city in the world and the administrative/cultural centre of Islam, wouldn't most countries want to move their capital there?

Alternatively, would they want to attempt to make themselves the Caliph?

Ahmed would like to see three options for any muslim country which captures Bagdhad:

a. move capital

b stay as we are

c try and become the Caliphate


Thoughts?

Matty

 

[Don_Quigleone]

Nice idea, would be pretty easy to script, 4 things to think about though 1. what happens if mutazelites conquer it, 2. what happens if the il khanate conquers it, 3 what happens if jerusalem conquers it and 4. what happens if byzantium conquers it, jerusalem and byzantium can probably be discounted as nothing major would probably happen (or not, if jerusalem conquered they'd be loved throughout europe), but the other two would have VERY interesting consequences

 

[orimazd]

Speaking of Baghdad, if the Ilkhanate captures the city the population should drop a lot more. I don't know if you intended Hulagu to be not as badass as his ancestor Hulagu I, but I know that the Mongols did a much bigger number on Baghdad than 30k people killed. Really, the population should be reduced by 300,000 if not more, even if it reduces the city population down to one thousand (if that happens, if possible there should be some events raising the population to simulate the moving of people from the Baghdad countryside into Baghdad, as what happened to any city sacked by the mongols). Plus the loss of the CoT. Possibly even having a capital change to, say, Damascus (it was also an important city in the history of the Caliphate, after all). Really, the Ilkhanate "sacking" (to put it lightly) of Baghdad should be devastating to the Caliphate, down to the monarch list.

Just an idea. Questions, comments, snide remarks? Alternatives, consequences for dar-al-Islam?

 

[MattyG]

The Il-Khanate event that sacks Baghdad reduces the Pop by 150 000, some of which are exiled to other regions.

I think that we definitely need to consider that this Hulagu may not have to fully emulate the RW version. BUT we could make that an action_c to devestate the city as a reminder to the rest of the Caliphate.

Here's how the expanded event would look.

event = {
	id = 600052
	random = no
	country = u20
	trigger = {
		control = { province = 489 data = -1 }
	}
	name = "The Vengeance of Hulagu"
	desc = "The capture of the great city of Baghdad would be Hulagu's crowning acheivement in a reign of violence and vengeance. His ancestor would have razed the city, leaving few alive and little standing, as a threat to the rest of the Calihate to submit to Mongol rule. Hulagu, seeing himself as the inheritor of the Mongol tradition, now faces the same choice: raze the city, or spare it from complete destruction and thereby win a more wealthy prize when the realm is conquered."
	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1419 }
	offset = 10
	deathdate = { day = 14 month = february year = 1429 }

	action_a = {
		name = "Release the dogs of vengeance"
		command = { type = cash value = 800 }
		command = { type = badboy value = 4 }
		command = { type = trigger which = 600053 }
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 534107 } # Jerusalem version
		command = { type = relation which = ADE value = -200 }
		command = { type = relation which = MAM value = -200 }
		command = { type = relation which = CAN value = -200 }
		command = { type = relation which = TEK value = -200 }
		command = { type = relation which = KAR value = -200 }
		command = { type = relation which = u14 value = -200 }
		command = { type = relation which = ARA value = -200 }
		command = { type = relation which = NAF value = -200 }
		command = { type = relation which = CRD value = -200 }
		command = { type = relation which = CYR value = -200 }
		command = { type = relation which = ALE value = -200 }
		command = { type = relation which = OMA value = -200 }
	}
	action_b = {
		name = "Try to spare the city"
		command = { type = cash value = 300 }
		command = { type = badboy value = 1 }
		command = { type = trigger which = 600054 }
	}
	action_c = {
		name = "Complete my ancestor's work"
		command = { type = cash value = 400 }
		command = { type = badboy value = 10 }
		command = { type = trigger which = 600055 }
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 534107 } # Jerusalem version
		command = { type = relation which = ADE value = -400 }
		command = { type = relation which = MAM value = -400 }
		command = { type = relation which = CAN value = -400 }
		command = { type = relation which = TEK value = -400 }
		command = { type = relation which = KAR value = -400 }
		command = { type = relation which = u14 value = -400 }
		command = { type = relation which = ARA value = -400 }
		command = { type = relation which = NAF value = -400 }
		command = { type = relation which = CRD value = -400 }
		command = { type = relation which = CYR value = -400 }
		command = { type = relation which = ALE value = -400 }
		command = { type = relation which = OMA value = -400 }
		command = { type = vassal which = CAL }
	}
}

event = {
	id = 600055
	random = no
	country = CAL
	name = "The Destruction of Baghdad"
	desc = "Fulfilling the goal of his ancestor and name-sake, Hulagu has captured the greatest city in the world and laid waste to it. People have fled from this Mongol terror as if from a nightmare out of her dark past. Flames rise above the walls and the waterways channel the blood of thousands into the Euphrates. Tens of thousands more flee the city, an exodus where the wealthy tread in rags beside their slaves, war the great reducer."

	action_a = {
		name = "There shall be a reckoning"
		command = { type = population which = 489 value = -250000 }
		command = { type = population which = 490 value = 15000 }
		command = { type = population which = 485 value = 15000 }
		command = { type = population which = 492 value = 25000 }
		command = { type = population which = 493 value = 15000 }
		command = { type = stability value = -6 }
		command = { type = vp value = -200 }
		command = { type = DIP which = -3 value = 120 }
		command = { type = ADM which = -3 value = 120 }
		command = { type = infra value = -3000 }
		command = { type = trade value = -3000 }
		command = { type = removecot which = 489 }
		command = { type = land value = -1000 }
		command = { type = domestic which = centralization value = -4 }
		command = { type = provincetax which = 489 value = -3 }
		command = { type = fortress which = 489 value = -2 }
		command = { type = losemanufactory which = 489 }
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 300961 }
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 300962 }
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 300963 }
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 300964 }
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 300965 }
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 300966 }
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 300967 }
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 300968 }
	}
}

 

[MattyG]

Nice idea, would be pretty easy to script, 4 things to think about though 1. what happens if mutazelites conquer it, 2. what happens if the il khanate conquers it, 3 what happens if jerusalem conquers it and 4. what happens if byzantium conquers it, jerusalem and byzantium can probably be discounted as nothing major would probably happen (or not, if jerusalem conquered they'd be loved throughout europe), but the other two would have VERY interesting consequences

1. Doesn't matter, they still think they are the true path of Islam.

2. Wouldn't trigger for them, they are not muslim

3. Ditto.

4. Ditto.

Matty

 

[Don_Quigleone]

yeah you're probably right, but i think something should fire if jerusalem conquers baghdad, also if the mutazelites manage to conquer the caliphate smaller muslim states might get a message where they can convert, maybe this shouldn't happen if another large sunni nation still exists (like the golden horde)

 

[MattyG]

yeah you're probably right, but i think something should fire if jerusalem conquers baghdad, also if the mutazelites manage to conquer the caliphate smaller muslim states might get a message where they can convert, maybe this shouldn't happen if another large sunni nation still exists (like the golden horde)

Tje KoJ have their own Sack of Baghdad event.

 

[orimazd]

Tens of thousands more flee the city,

No mongol cavalry chasing them down?

Here's how Temur razed Baghdad to the ground.

1. "Though Baghdad was nearly six miles in circumference, said Yazdi, the huge army encircled it with ease. A bridge of boats was built over the Tigris and archers stationed downriver to prevent the inhabitants escaping. Upriver, Miranshah and Shahrukh guarded the approaches to the city."

2. When the army stormed the walls six weeks into a really hot summer, "many of the inhabitants threw themselves into the Tigris in desperation, only to be cut down by the waiting archers."

3. Pissed off, Temur ordered each of his soldiers to collect a Baghdad head. Arabshah, who IIRC hated Temur with every cell in his body because of Damascus, wrote that it was two heads per man.

4. The order that every house should be razed. "Mosques, colleges, and hospitals alone were to be spared, said Yazdi."

5. They made 120 pyramids of skulls out of the populace. Of course, this was after the city had been razed to the ground by Hulagu.

According to the infallible Wikipedia, "Citizens attempted to flee, but were intercepted by Mongol soldiers [Hulagu's] who killed with abandon. Martin Sicker writes that close to 90,000 people may have died (Sicker 2000, p. 111). Other estimates go much higher. Wassaf claims the loss of life was several hundred thousand. Ian Frazier of The New Yorker says estimates of the death toll have ranged from 200,000 to a million."

Then Temur killed about 90 thousand people when he came around.

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/050425fa_fact4

So, I raise my estimate for Hulagu III's crippling of the city to 400,000. The Computer will never do it anyways.

Of course, after Temur took a city he usually built it right back up for other people from the surrounding countryside, as well as those lucky enough to survive one of his sieges to go back to. How strange that even then they occasionally refused to pay tribute and went through it all over again.

 

[MattyG]

Like, maybe they left beforehand?

Also, as you allude, these accounts may not be accurate. They don't mention people leaving before the armies got there, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. They don't mention how many people escaped their wrath, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen.

 

[orimazd]

True. The accounts basically talk about the death--for example, I believe the city was Herat--Genghis Khan ordered everyone in the city killed...and when they thought they had everyone (really, only like 95% of the people were killed by them) they left...and then turned around, marched right back into the city, and took apart every building piece by piece to get everyone else. They got about 3000 people in that purge. Sixteen people were (un)lucky enough to survive that, making their living off cannibalism and raiding hajj caravans for food.

Just wanted to share that.