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May 9, 2000
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I know that attacking and annexing countries without a CB is very Badboy, but what if you have a CB?

For instance: If Russia is going to annex Kazan,(Russia has permanent CB) does it make any difference who declares war?

Also, if Russia takes a province in peace settlements, does it matter if they have a CB or who declared war? (I.e. taking Ingermandland from TK (permanent CB))

I am trying to play Russia as a good boy and it is really boring, since I have only been in 1 real war in 80 years. (My allies dragged me into a few others and I White Peaced) Since I have no ports and have only annexed Kazan, I can't explore and colonize. I am going to restart and go get Kazan, Golden Horde, Astrakan, Sibir (to enabler Siberian exploration & colonization), and Ingermandland (as a port to supply colonists). However, I want to minimize my BB value in doing this.
 
If Russia is going to annex Kazan,(Russia has permanent CB) does it make any difference who declares war?

If you annex the entire country you always get the same BB with Kazan.

Also, if Russia takes a province in peace settlements, does it matter if they have a CB or who declared war?

CB always matters, both in annexing entire countries and just provinces, much higher BB if you don't even have a CB.
Taking provinces (but not the capital) in defensive wars ALWAYS gives 0 BB.

I am going to restart and go get Kazan, Golden Horde, Astrakan, Sibir (to enabler Siberian exploration & colonization), and Ingermandland (as a port to supply colonists). However, I want to minimize my BB value in doing this.

Take 3provinces + money from Kazan, GH & Astrakahn.
Gives you access to Sibir while only giving a BB of 12 including DOW . DOW on TK and getting Ingermanland gives another 2 BB, If you do this by 1550 you BB will be 14 - 6 = 8.
 
If I eventually want to annex Kazan, GH & Astrakan, shouldn't I just annex them instead of taking a penalty for taking 3 provinces, and then 100 years later getting hit for another 5 or 6 for annexing the rest?
 
As a matter of fact, the best way for Russia is :
One war, one full annexion for every country in the path between Moscow and Siberia...

However, be sure to leave strong border garrisons against Poland who loves nothing more than attacking you when all your armies are soooo far away from the Kremlin...
 
H & Y,

Thanks for the feedback.

Does annexing Kazan, GH, Astrakan & Sibir in one big war give you a lower BB Value?

I did the following very easily last night with only one DOW from Poland & Crimea, each followed immediately by white peace (I also had an alliance with Pskov, Moldavia & Denmark)
1492 DOW on TK & take Ingermanland (for 1 colonist per year)
1493-4 DOW on Kazan & Annnex
1494-5 DOW on GH & Annex
1496-7 DOW on Astrakhan & Annex
1498-9 DOW on Sibir and Annex (for access to Siberia)

This cost me 23 BB points (I think) So it will be 1722 before I am BB neutral again. Seems like a long time to pay for a couple of pissant Khanates. Also, I have to spend about 100 Ducats a year on letters and personal gifts for my erstwhile allies.

I'll play it once as designed, and then I'll edit the save game and knock 13 points off my BB value. (I.e. 100 years for the world to forgive this aggression seems reasonable)

As Russia you need to expand to have a shot at colonization and a decent economy. I played till 1580 as a Good Boy and it was really dull. However, if I behave during the 1500's I would like to have decent Diplomatic relation starting in 1600, since Diplomacy is a fun part of the game and a big BB value really crushes the joy.

Its clear that the BB thing need some playtesting & tweaking. It was just added recently, correct?
 
If I eventually want to annex Kazan, GH & Astrakan, shouldn't I just annex them instead of taking a penalty for taking 3 provinces, and then 100 years later getting hit for another 5 or 6 for annexing the rest?

This is not how it works. If you later decide to attack and take for instance GH capital it will not be 5-6 BB, but just 2, 1 for DOW & 1 for one province annexed.

If your lucky GH will even DOW you thus costing you only 1 in BB (the same total as annexing it earlier).

If you do the same with astrakahn you can even, from 3 wars, end up with less BB then you would by annexing in one go.
You DOW 1 + 3 provinces = 4
Astr DOW 0 + 2 provinces in defensive war = 0
You DOW 1 + Astr Capital = 1

Total BB = 5
Total if you annex in one go = 6

To this add the additional money you take in the peaces & about 80VP more then the annex at once gives.

The benefit of 'my way' is also that you don't have to worry about Poland or anybody else to backstab you all the time, since your BB will keep quite low all the time, while still allowing you to expand quite fast.


1498-9 DOW on Sibir and Annex (for access to Siberia)

Ehm, firstly you don't even have to attack Sibir to get access to Siberia, you can just walk past them.
Annexing in one go for total 5 BB will get you into touble later on. I'm currently running with 1.08 so this might not apply to you, but taking provinces from Sibir yeilds 0 (!) BB for me. Thus leave Sibirs capital for later and just take the provinces around it.
 
Huszics, I was playing around and it looked like the Badboy Formulas were:

DOW : 1 point
Gain provinces: 1 point per province
Annex whole country: sum of provinces

So for a five province country its 6 if I DOW or 5 if they DOW. Correct?

Also, Is this doubled if the country is the same relgion as you? (I grabbed Scotland as England in 1492-3 and got 10 BB points)

Thanks, Keith
 
Huszics, I was playing around and it looked like the Badboy Formulas were:

DOW : 1 point
Gain provinces: 1 point per province
Annex whole country: sum of provinces

So for a five province country its 6 if I DOW or 5 if they DOW. Correct?

Yes, thats basicly it (with CB & other religion). But there are exceptions, like Sibir.
DOW = 0 BB
Take 4 provinces = 0 BB
Annex all five in one go = 5 BB
Annex capital after first taking 4 provinces in other wars = 1 BB
 
Is this in 1.07c (what I am playing) or 1.08?

Is Sibir a specific exception, or is it the same for any Pagan nation?

I am saving the Spanish experience for when I am more familiar with the game, and want to know how best to deal with Aztecs & Incas. (Or iroquios)

Also, if you are testing 1.08, please encourage Paradox to put an explanation of the Badboy changes in the readme.

Thanks, Keith
 
Sorry for being so 'newb'. Is there a place where you can see what your bb rating is or do you just have to do the math yourself.

I started off learning the game by playing the Russians. I quickly look to my Moslem neighbors and noticed they were oppressing my Orthodox brothers. Call in the troops! I quickly took out Kazan, the GH, and Sibr. When fighting the Kazan and the GH nobody seemed to care. When I was just about to conquer the Sibr my friendly european neighbors, the Tuetonic Knights (sp?), Poland and Sweden paid me a social call (all easily repulsed and white peace given rather quickly). Was killing off these Moslem countries enough to raise my BB to force the attack from the European nations? Seems so to me. Hence my orginal question.

Thanks,
 
Is this in 1.07c (what I am playing) or 1.08?

This is beta 1.08, however I believe it works the same in 1.07C, though cannot say for certain (and I have no time to check older patches behaviour, sorry).

Also, if you are testing 1.08, please encourage Paradox to put an explanation of the Badboy changes in the readme.

That's probably not going to happen as Paradox doesn't release very much even to me (I haven't signed any NDA aggrements).
All the info I give you I have concluded from playing myself.

Is there a place where you can see what your bb rating is or do you just have to do the math yourself.

Check my FAQ.
 
Huszics,

You shouldn't need to sign an NDA to have an explanation of how the rules work. This should be included in the read-me to any game patch.

I really don't think that hiding the rules from people who paid for the game is an effective security feature.

I can't picture some competitor or band of software pirates is sitting in some wharehouse thinking: 'Aaargh! If only we had more information on the Badboy calcualtion, we could make millions bootlegging this game!'

Maybe the boys at Paradox love Programming, Playtesting, and History, but really hate putting together those boring manuals. Unfortunately, I fear this could cost them alot of commercial success in the mainstream game market. That is why I harp on this, I want to see this game have broad based appeal.
 
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Keifer, I must agree. Having Worked in the game industry in the past, and also having signed NDA's in the past, and having not signed them also, it is necessary, nay, CRITICAL to gameplay that things like the BadBoy feature be explained, at lease in some sort of vagueness. I can understand if they want you to figure out about it on your own, bu they should at least give some idea has to what it is that you do that raises the bb so darn much!

Anyway, just my own 2 cents
 
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