Changes to Playing Previous Versions of PDS Titles

[SolSys]

Ditto.

If I can't get my games sinked so I can revert back to older versions then Paradox's games (EU4, CK2, and CS) become pretty much obsolete to me. I would feel that I should be entitled a refund as these terms and conditions aren't what they were when I purchased these games.

Furthermore, things like this are deterring me from ever wanting to purchase any game that requires an internet connection just to play said game. The headache isn't worth the cost.

You can't get them before the 1st of October.
Furthermore, you don't require an *active* internet connection -- it is a one time thing.
Edit: Regarding "Terms and Conditions" -- they have not changed much. Game data was collected before as well -- heck, there were even DDs publishing the results from time to time [I found them interesting].

I cannot see any way in which processing of gameplay telemetry is necessary for older versions of the game, since they by definition no longer get updated and therefore receive no benefit from gameplay tracking. Since the tracking of this personal data is not necessary for the functioning of older versions of the game, it is in violation of GDPR to require that players consent to it and therefore any consent given is invalid.

While the telemetry may not be processed it is *still* being sent.
Removing this function or even adding the GDPR pop-up would require too much man-hours [hours * each single revision] so they opted for an easier and cheaper solution.
It may not seem the best one, but it sure is faster.

 

[SolSys]

I think you misunderstood my post. I know they opted for the easier and cheaper solution. I was saying I don't think it's a solution at all because it is still in violation of GDPR.

The GDPR states the user needs to be made actively aware of it which did not happen before -- and we all know 98% of users don't read EULAs.
I amended my original reply with a clarification.

 

[HottestRod]

>With that done the Games tab on Paradox Plaza will show the list of codes needed to revert to previous versions.
So... Is this particular functionality a WIP? I can't see the codes on https://accounts.paradoxplaza.com/games. I can't even see that I own EU4/Ck2/HOI4, only Stellaris and the south indian portrait DLC for CK2.

Indeed. Codes will be available from the 1st of October onward!

Regarding the issue of Steam and Plaza not synchronizing games properly, I will talk to my colleagues to be sure that this settled by the 1st of October.

 

[TinyWiking]

Hm, I'm not sure that works. I basically own all Paradox Games, but on the Paradox Plaza Games tab (i.e. https://accounts.paradoxplaza.com/games), I can only see a selection of my games and DLCs. (Maybe just the ones I actually bought from the Paradox Store, not from Steam?) Crusader Kings 2 base game, for example, is not listed. Or am I looking in the wrong place?

Just to say, same as a lot of people I can't see my games on Paradox even after synching with Steam (and again it is showing items as forum tags but not on paradox account settings game tab). Sorry if I'm being dense and missing something but is there away around this to get a key to use?

Even if your Game page doesn't populate properly you will see all the passwords for the older versions of the games, it will be a separate section.

 

[badgr]

RodDel (or any other Paradox employee), please explain how this new policy is in accordance with GDPR Article 7(4):

I cannot see any way in which processing of gameplay telemetry is necessary for older versions of the game, since they by definition no longer get updated and therefore receive no benefit from gameplay tracking. Since the tracking of this personal data is not necessary for the functioning of older versions of the game, it is in violation of GDPR to require that players consent to it and therefore any consent given is invalid.

By even playing a previous version of the game that tells us that there's something that is driving some folks there - more so if it's a large portion of the player base playing a previous branch. When we have that data, it becomes valuable and actionable information for the team. Getting telemetry on previous versions of the games and seeing how that version is being interacted with helps to inform future development decisions. The core of gathering any form of telemetry data from a game is to better understand what people do with it - from a development perspective that's about understanding interactions within the game and what is meaningful to people, from a community perspective it helps us to understand where we can engage with our players and what we should communicate regarding future updates that will be of interest.

 

[HottestRod]

I tried triggering thr manual sync yesterday on the owned Items page, and i think that is not working. There are a lot of icons in the "Inactive" box of games that I own, such as the CK2 base game which I play almost every day. Why are these icons not in the "Active" box? See attachment

The manipulation to get the codes will only be available from the 1st of October and onward. In addition, the sync between Steam and Paradox Account has to be done on the Paradox Plaza webiste, not within the forums. Hope this helps! And if your situation is only linked to icons, please file a ticket on our support website

 

[Dnote]

Overall, I am quite disappointed with the way PDX handles the GDPR changeover. I like PDX and almost all PDX products very much, so I'm expressing myself instead of being silently annoyed.
However, I get the impression that PDX is very reluctant to make the change, that it doesn't manage to see GDPR as an opportunity, and that, on top of that, numerous changes are (seemingly) unnecessarily made against the interests of customers.

Formulations like that data is deleted GDPR-compatible, unless you have a game of PDX (which is always true, otherwise you wouldn't have produced data first), or now that a login (with data transfer) is necessary to access old versions seems cynical. I'm also worried about how much IPs seem to be stored.

As I've said elsewhere, I'm willing to voluntarily share a lot of data of my choice, have participated in every poll so far, and try to contribute something constructive to the forum. However, if I get the impression that PDX tries to take data by "force" and treat privacy cynically, then my opinion of PDX and accordingly my willingness to provide data drops.

Maybe I just misunderstood something and the communication went wrong. But since I had the impression that PDX was interested in a good relationship and good communication with customers, it seemed right to me to express my perception.

Don’t really understand what you’re trying to say here. Can you elaborate please?

 

[TinyWiking]

@TinyWiking , this will create a slew of problems for big mods which take time to adapt to new versions of the games...

Understandable alas it's not something that I'm actually involved in . This decision is a direct result of the EU implementing the GDPR legislation and we need to play by their rules. It was either lock old versions behind a password or remove them completely and I think we can all agree that the later is less than ideal .

 

[Dnote]

Yep. And you do understand that I play in v1.12.2 (from the post you replied upon)? And that I intend to continue doing so? Will I or will I then not need to bother about required codes post-October 1st?

Hey AKronblad, we'll talk to the team and see if we can get the codes up before we enable them on Steam, but this is what you should do:

1. Right click EU4 in your library and go to Properties
2. Second tab "UPDATES"
3. In the Automatic updates at the top, select "Only update this game when I launch it"

4. On the day we make this change, apply the password to the "BETAS" tab, before you launch the game
5. Select your version from the drop down list on the the "BETAS" tab

6. Launch the game

This should solve your problem and prevent it from updating to the latest version, you'll need to check to the "BETAS" tab to see if we've turned on the password or not before launching on October 1.

 

[HottestRod]

Understood, so the separate list will appear in the My Games page on October 1?

Yup

 

[Dnote]

Hey,

Couple of things,

1. The game uses two pieces of personal information, your SteamID and IP Address. Some of our games use ad tracking software called Buffpanel, but we're in the process of removing that (might've already been removed, I don't keep an eye on everything). We're also investigating how to minimise what personal data we use across the board, though it is difficult to see how we can avoid using the SteamID.

2. Turning off data collection isn't sufficient, we checked.

 

[Darkrenown]

Your savegame should be unchanged, just follow the directions in the OP to go back to whatever version you were playing on.

 

[HottestRod]

But thankfully RodDel seems to have already pointed out a solution in the opening post:

My friend gave me a code to access an older version of the game, can I use it?
Yes, but please understand that by using the code you agree with our Privacy Policy and understand what it means.

This sounds a lot like there is only 1 code that is the same for everyone (which btw is also my understanding how Beta access on Steam generally works). Maybe you can find that code somewhere, so you can avoid linking your accounts? Just taking a wild guess here, of course

We are not pointing out a solution here. You have to bear in mind that the previous sentence is merely informative in order to be as transparent as possible. We do not advocate password sharing, if you use a shared password, it is at your own risk. The reason we ask you to have a Paradox Account to retrieve the codes is to ensure you agree with our Privacy Policy and get the opportunity to read it and understand which personal data will be collected from you when you play these old versions.

Thank you for pointing this out, I will update the FAQ accordingly.

 

[HottestRod]

Speaking of the sharing codes, wouldn't using a shared code actually mean that the privacy policy agreement you state would be given then will be null and void GDPR wise as there's no clear an freely given consent, but just an entered code. Unless upon entering the code there's a popup asking you to accept the policy in case you aren't linked.
And hence any data retrieved from a sharer would make you breach GDPR.

Though I'm just a layman so I might be completely wrong, but that at least is what it looks to me based on what I've been told about how the law works.

Thanks for your question! If a user decides to use a shared password, the privacy policy would not be rendered null and void GDPR wise. More precisely, it shows that a user has bypassed our best effort to protect his/her personal information and inform him/her about the data we collect.

The key here is to understand that the GDRP is a regulation made to harmonize data protection across the European Union, giving more control to users over their personal information. The goal is also to help companies to be more forthcoming regarding data collection and how it is processed. This is precisely the reason why we had to put old version under passlock, because they did not give you a chance to read and understand which personal data is collected and why.

By circumventing the privacy policy pop-up with a shared password, you knowingly bypass all measures implemented to make sure that you agree with us collecting data. It might not be the perfect solution, but it is the best solution to date. We sincerely wanted to give our community the opportunity to keep on playing their favorite version of our games whilst being upfront and transparent with the measures implemented, hence the question in our FAQ.

 

[Dnote]

Why not stopping to collect data from older versions?

Anyway forcing people to accept an agreement to continue to provide a service is not complient. (article 7 part 4)

Processing the SteamID is required for a game to run on Steam due to how the social functions and multiplayer services they provide work. Even if we turned off the telemetry, we still have to process the SteamID, therefore we still require your consent to do that, as GDPR made the SteamID personal data (which is wasn't legally classified as before).

So, it isn't about removing telemetry, that wouldn't change this situation, it is more about adding in functionality to each version that would get your consent within the game rather than through the website as we have done with this solution. But going back and modifying all those versions, is not viable, therefore the choice was simple, either we do it through the website like this or we remove all of the old versions completely.

We've explored every option here, there is no way around this as long as Steam functions the way it does.

EDIT: Technically, we could remove multiplayer, achievements, trading cards, DLC, etc and then you could have the game on Steam without processing the SteamID. But that definitely isn't a viable solution for our existing games.

 

[TinyWiking]

For the passwords people have to access older betas for games, are the passwords random? Also, how do I have passwords to access betas to games I don't own?

No, they are not random. As for why you see passwords for games you don't own we simply decided it was easier to show all passwords for everyone with an account instead of basing it on what you own.

 

[TinyWiking]

No, they are not random

This means that everyone has the same code, yes.

 

[TinyWiking]

Hi! Is there any code to play the older versions of CK3?

As @zorkman mentioned you don't need a code for CKIII as codes are only required for older titles .