Chinese-flavored fantasy materials and research.

[zeruosi]

I'm writing this post to provide materials for Western modders creating fantasy content, so we can avoid another unbearable 'yanshen' situation like in Anbennar.

 

[Zerodv]

Definitely interested in the topic

 

[Blackcat321]

Out of curiosity, what's wrong with Yanshen?

 

[Davincie]

So no elves in Yuan China?

 

[POD012]

Very, very curious for this when you're more proper for ir...

Always interesting to get an actually local perspective on foreign cultures, I find.

 

[zeruosi]

Out of curiosity, what's wrong with Yanshen?

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/what-mod-will-born-in-eu4.1745797/post-30413644

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/what-mod-will-born-in-eu4.1745797/post-30413851

They're here. Actually, I have more to say, but I don't want to turn this place—or anywhere else—into a platform for criticizing Anbennar.

 

[zeruosi]

So no elves in Yuan China?

maybe？

 

[zeruosi]

First, let's discuss Chinese-style place names. For people from non-East Asian cultures, or even non-Chinese backgrounds, creating Chinese-flavored place names often results in very poor outcomes. Suffixes like "cun,"(村) "cheng/shi,"(城/市) "zhou,"(州) and "shui"(shui) are haphazardly scattered across the map. This is a very bad practice.

In reality, creating Chinese-style names only requires focusing on two key elements to name most locations: rivers and mountains. Many Chinese cities are named after rivers and mountains, such as Luoyang（洛阳）, Tai'an,（泰安） Jining（济宁）, Huaiyin（淮阴）, Jiangning（江宁）, Jiangyin（江阴）, Huai'an（淮安）, Jinan（济南）, Linyi（临沂）, Linzi（临淄）, Guan County（灌县）, Xiangshui（响水）, and so on.
So first, we need to determine the names of rivers and mountains. For mountain names, keep them simple—preferably single-syllable or double-syllable names, and avoid names exceeding three syllables. For tall, steep mountains, it's recommended to use the suffix "Mountain" (山), while gentler slopes can use "Ridge" (岭). There are no special rules for naming mountains—just pick characters that sound powerful and majestic.

For river naming, it's more complex and varied. For major rivers and natural waterways, use single-syllable names. Personally, I suggest creating a character database for your chosen single-syllable names and checking for characters containing the "water" radical (氵) or "two-dots water" radical (冫). Avoid characters with the "fire" radical (火) or "earth" radical (土), as they conflict with water's essential nature.

Look at China's major rivers, such as the Four Rivers and Eight Streams (四渎八流), which follow this naming convention—rivers like the Jiang (江), He (河), Huai (淮), Ji (济), Jing (泾), Wei (渭), Fen (汾), Luo (洛), Han (汉), Yi (沂), Mu (沐), Zi (淄), and Luan (滦). Note that rivers named this way are best confined to the core civilization regions where this naming system originated. Rivers outside this range may not follow this principle, such as the Qiantang River (钱塘江), Wusong River (吴淞江), Pearl River (珠江), Heilongjiang (黑龙江), and Liao River (辽河).

Some of these rivers are transliterations of local indigenous names (e.g., Qiantang River), while others are named based on their appearance (e.g., Heilongjiang). For artificial waterways and canals, older and smaller ones can be named "X Gully" (X沟) or "X Ditch" (X渠), while larger ones can be named "Y River" (Y河). The naming conventions for artificial waterways are diverse—some are named after nearby lakes or regions (e.g., He Shui [菏水] and Kan Gou [刊沟]), some after people (e.g., Jia Lu River [贾鲁河] and Wang Jing River [王景河]), some based on transportation changes or convenience (e.g., Yi Fan River [一帆河] and Ju Ma River [拒马河]), and others after the developing country, river purpose, or river characteristics (e.g., Zheng Guo Canal [郑国渠], Guan River [灌河], and Xiang Shui River [响水河]). In short, artificial waterway naming is highly flexible—you can choose freely.
After determining the names of rivers and mountains, the next step is city naming conventions. First, let's discuss the Yin-Yang naming method.

Rivers follow the principle that the south bank is Yin and the north bank is Yang, while mountains are the opposite—the south side is Yang and the north side is Yin. Of course, if your fantasy version of China is set in the Southern Hemisphere, you can reverse this.

Next, use rivers and mountains as prefixes combined with auspicious suffixes like An (安), Ning (宁), Jing (静), or Ping (平). If your world includes rivers with high sediment content like the Yellow River, you can add "Qing" (清, meaning "clear") to signify purity.

You can also name cities based on geographic directions, such as Jinan (济南). However, I recommend using only the four cardinal directions—East, South, West, and North. Additionally, you can name cities based on the characteristics of mountains and rivers, such as Jiyuan (济源), which means "source of the Ji River." Some cities are directly named after rivers themselves, like Guan County (灌县).

Another special case is the use of the character "Lin" (临), which means "bordering" or "nearby." For example, the capital of the Qi state, Linzi (临淄), was named because it bordered the Zi River. However, it's important to note that the Southern Song Dynasty's capital, Lin'an (临安), uses "Lin" to mean "temporary settlement" or "provisional capital."

Cities can be named by incorporating the character "中" (middle) to indicate their location along a river's course, such as Hanzhong City, which is named for being located in the middle reaches of the ancient Han River.

Next, I will use a temporarily fabricated river as a case study to determine the city name. First, I decide on the river's name by selecting the sound "Gui." Then, I search the Chinese character database and find the character "溎" (Yan/Gui). Based on this, I can proceed to create the city name accordingly.

1. Guiyuan (溎源) – "Source of the Guishui River"
2. Guiyin (溎阴) – "shadow of the Guishui River"
3. Guining (溎宁) – "Peaceful Guishui"
4. Zhonggui (中溎) – "Middle Guishui" (referring to the river's middle reaches)
5. Guiyang (溎阳) – "Sunny Guishui"
6. Guijian (溎县) – "Guishui County"
7. Guixian (溎县) – Alternative spelling of "Guijian"
8. Guian (溎安) – "Peaceful Guishui"
9. Guiko (溎柯) – "Guishui Tree" (if "柯" refers to trees)
10. Guishui (溎水) – "Guishui River" (direct naming)
11. Guize (溎则) – "Guishui Rules" (if "则" implies regulations)
12. Linggui (灵溎) – "Sacred Guishui"
13. Guiping (溎平) – "Peaceful Guishui"
14. Guijing (溎京) – "Capital of Guishui"
15. Guibei (溎北) – "Northern Guishui"
16. Guigang (溎港) – "Guishui Port"
17. Guiyin (溎音) – "Sound of the Guishui River"
18. Lingui (临溎) – "Close to the Guishui River"

We can see how much potential this naming method has. Once the rivers and mountains are determined, we can effortlessly create dozens or even hundreds of place names.

Of course, using only this type of naming would be somewhat homogeneous. For the remaining names, we can simply combine more sonorous and majestic characters from the character library. For example, "Tianjing/Tiandu" 天京/天都(Heavenly Capital) or "Tiancheng"天城 (Heavenly City).

It’s best to avoid suffixes like lou楼 (tower), ta塔 (pagoda), miao庙 (temple), zhuang庄 (village), or jie街 (street), as these refer to very specific and small-scale locations, making them unsuitable for city names.

 

[Atromb]

Curious about how you feel about other depictions of 'Fantasy China' such as Warhammer Cathay or Dominions Tien Chi.

MA T'ien Ch'i Imperial Bureaucracy - illwiki: Dominions 5 Wiki

t-ien-ch-i-ma MA T'ien Ch'i Imperial Bureaucracy Lore T'ien Ch'i is obviously influenced by China. I couldn't even resist the name Spring and Autumn, from the period of the same name in Chinese history. Chinese history is rich and there is plenty to draw upon. Daoism and its five elements...

illwiki.com

 

[SAmaster]

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/what-mod-will-born-in-eu4.1745797/post-30413644

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/what-mod-will-born-in-eu4.1745797/post-30413851

They're here. Actually, I have more to say, but I don't want to turn this place—or anywhere else—into a platform for criticizing Anbennar.

To be fair, your platforms for doing so are limited.

First, let's discuss Chinese-style place names. For people from non-East Asian cultures, or even non-Chinese backgrounds, creating Chinese-flavored place names often results in very poor outcomes. Suffixes like "cun,"(村) "cheng/shi,"(城/市) "zhou,"(州) and "shui"(shui) are haphazardly scattered across the map. This is a very bad practice.

In reality, creating Chinese-style names only requires focusing on two key elements to name most locations: rivers and mountains. Many Chinese cities are named after rivers and mountains, such as Luoyang（洛阳）, Tai'an,（泰安） Jining（济宁）, Huaiyin（淮阴）, Jiangning（江宁）, Jiangyin（江阴）, Huai'an（淮安）, Jinan（济南）, Linyi（临沂）, Linzi（临淄）, Guan County（灌县）, Xiangshui（响水）, and so on.
So first, we need to determine the names of rivers and mountains. For mountain names, keep them simple—preferably single-syllable or double-syllable names, and avoid names exceeding three syllables. For tall, steep mountains, it's recommended to use the suffix "Mountain" (山), while gentler slopes can use "Ridge" (岭). There are no special rules for naming mountains—just pick characters that sound powerful and majestic.

For river naming, it's more complex and varied. For major rivers and natural waterways, use single-syllable names. Personally, I suggest creating a character database for your chosen single-syllable names and checking for characters containing the "water" radical (氵) or "two-dots water" radical (冫). Avoid characters with the "fire" radical (火) or "earth" radical (土), as they conflict with water's essential nature.

Look at China's major rivers, such as the Four Rivers and Eight Streams (四渎八流), which follow this naming convention—rivers like the Jiang (江), He (河), Huai (淮), Ji (济), Jing (泾), Wei (渭), Fen (汾), Luo (洛), Han (汉), Yi (沂), Mu (沐), Zi (淄), and Luan (滦). Note that rivers named this way are best confined to the core civilization regions where this naming system originated. Rivers outside this range may not follow this principle, such as the Qiantang River (钱塘江), Wusong River (吴淞江), Pearl River (珠江), Heilongjiang (黑龙江), and Liao River (辽河).

Some of these rivers are transliterations of local indigenous names (e.g., Qiantang River), while others are named based on their appearance (e.g., Heilongjiang). For artificial waterways and canals, older and smaller ones can be named "X Gully" (X沟) or "X Ditch" (X渠), while larger ones can be named "Y River" (Y河). The naming conventions for artificial waterways are diverse—some are named after nearby lakes or regions (e.g., He Shui [菏水] and Kan Gou [刊沟]), some after people (e.g., Jia Lu River [贾鲁河] and Wang Jing River [王景河]), some based on transportation changes or convenience (e.g., Yi Fan River [一帆河] and Ju Ma River [拒马河]), and others after the developing country, river purpose, or river characteristics (e.g., Zheng Guo Canal [郑国渠], Guan River [灌河], and Xiang Shui River [响水河]). In short, artificial waterway naming is highly flexible—you can choose freely.
After determining the names of rivers and mountains, the next step is city naming conventions. First, let's discuss the Yin-Yang naming method.

Rivers follow the principle that the south bank is Yin and the north bank is Yang, while mountains are the opposite—the south side is Yang and the north side is Yin. Of course, if your fantasy version of China is set in the Southern Hemisphere, you can reverse this.

Next, use rivers and mountains as prefixes combined with auspicious suffixes like An (安), Ning (宁), Jing (静), or Ping (平). If your world includes rivers with high sediment content like the Yellow River, you can add "Qing" (清, meaning "clear") to signify purity.

You can also name cities based on geographic directions, such as Jinan (济南). However, I recommend using only the four cardinal directions—East, South, West, and North. Additionally, you can name cities based on the characteristics of mountains and rivers, such as Jiyuan (济源), which means "source of the Ji River." Some cities are directly named after rivers themselves, like Guan County (灌县).

Another special case is the use of the character "Lin" (临), which means "bordering" or "nearby." For example, the capital of the Qi state, Linzi (临淄), was named because it bordered the Zi River. However, it's important to note that the Southern Song Dynasty's capital, Lin'an (临安), uses "Lin" to mean "temporary settlement" or "provisional capital."

Cities can be named by incorporating the character "中" (middle) to indicate their location along a river's course, such as Hanzhong City, which is named for being located in the middle reaches of the ancient Han River.

Next, I will use a temporarily fabricated river as a case study to determine the city name. First, I decide on the river's name by selecting the sound "Gui." Then, I search the Chinese character database and find the character "溎" (Yan/Gui). Based on this, I can proceed to create the city name accordingly.

1. Guiyuan (溎源) – "Source of the Guishui River"
2. Guiyin (溎阴) – "shadow of the Guishui River"
3. Guining (溎宁) – "Peaceful Guishui"
4. Zhonggui (中溎) – "Middle Guishui" (referring to the river's middle reaches)
5. Guiyang (溎阳) – "Sunny Guishui"
6. Guijian (溎县) – "Guishui County"
7. Guixian (溎县) – Alternative spelling of "Guijian"
8. Guian (溎安) – "Peaceful Guishui"
9. Guiko (溎柯) – "Guishui Tree" (if "柯" refers to trees)
10. Guishui (溎水) – "Guishui River" (direct naming)
11. Guize (溎则) – "Guishui Rules" (if "则" implies regulations)
12. Linggui (灵溎) – "Sacred Guishui"
13. Guiping (溎平) – "Peaceful Guishui"
14. Guijing (溎京) – "Capital of Guishui"
15. Guibei (溎北) – "Northern Guishui"
16. Guigang (溎港) – "Guishui Port"
17. Guiyin (溎音) – "Sound of the Guishui River"
18. Lingui (临溎) – "Close to the Guishui River"

We can see how much potential this naming method has. Once the rivers and mountains are determined, we can effortlessly create dozens or even hundreds of place names.

Of course, using only this type of naming would be somewhat homogeneous. For the remaining names, we can simply combine more sonorous and majestic characters from the character library. For example, "Tianjing/Tiandu" 天京/天都(Heavenly Capital) or "Tiancheng"天城 (Heavenly City).

It’s best to avoid suffixes like lou楼 (tower), ta塔 (pagoda), miao庙 (temple), zhuang庄 (village), or jie街 (street), as these refer to very specific and small-scale locations, making them unsuitable for city names.

This reminds of playing Valkyria Chronicles, and seeing on the map that their version of the UK is the 'United Kingdom of Edinburgh' which is like hearing 'the United States of Pittsburgh'.

Side note: When is someone gonna make a Valkyria Chronicles HOI4 mod?

 

[zeruosi]

Then there are the fantasy civilizations and races. Since Western fantasy works have largely established their racial frameworks, introducing any additional races would make the setting feel somewhat off—such as lizardmen, tiger-people, snake-people, or even panda-people.

I have two proposals:

First Proposal: Without introducing new races, depicting a fantasy version of China is relatively straightforward. The primary race would be humans, mixed with some elves and dragons—perhaps even fully hybridized, as both real-world and fantasy China have historically been highly assimilative, including the Chinese language itself, which is a fusion of multiple linguistic influences. (Under the same rules, of course.)

Second Proposal: If new races are to be introduced, the following options could be considered:

1. Tiger-People 虎人: Tigers are the apex predators of East Asia, and making them a civilized race is somewhat plausible. However, due to their inherent nature, they would likely exhibit extreme aggression. Real-world inspirations could include the Qin Dynasty, early Tang Dynasty, Yuan Dynasty, or Qing Dynasty—regimes known for their expansionist ambitions and conquests.
2. Panda-People 熊猫人: As China’s national symbol, pandas are uniquely tied to the country’s identity, making them a viable choice for a civilized race. Though generally peaceful, pandas are carnivorous by nature. According to Chinese mythology, the war god Chi You rode a panda, nicknamed the "Iron-Eating Beast." A fantasy China dominated by panda-people would likely be expansionist yet prosperous, with occasional military campaigns. Real-world inspirations could include the Han Dynasty, most of the Tang Dynasty, or the Ming Dynasty.
3. Dragon-People 龙人: Dragons are China’s spiritual totems, making them a natural choice for a civilized race. However, Chinese dragons differ significantly from Western fantasy dragons, resembling more the feathered serpents (Quetzalcoatl) or nagas of other mythologies. As a purely fantastical creature, dragons could represent a civilization’s golden age—such as the peak periods of various dynasties. That said, dragons are dragons, while dragon-people are their degenerated descendants, potentially portraying a decaying empire—like the late Qing Dynasty. Most people would understand this analogy without further explanation.
4. Fox-People 狐人/狐族: Fox worship is widespread across East Asia, making fox-people a viable race. Notably, while most famous fox spirits are female, male foxes exist as well, and both genders are typically depicted as elegant, beautiful, and highly seductive, often possessing great intelligence. A fox-people-dominated region would likely be militarily weak but economically prosperous, possibly adopting a non-monarchical system. Given their widespread influence, they could also be portrayed as exploratory. A historical reference could be the Southern Song Dynasty.
5. Merfolk (Aquatic Humans) 鲛人: Similar to mermaids but exclusively aquatic, these creatures might have limited amphibious abilities. Males are ugly, while females are beautiful, and their tears turn into pearls. They are skilled weavers, producing the prized "fish-silk" fabric. Some records describe their voices as infant-like, while others note their meat is delicious. Certain texts suggest male merfolk are cannibalistic. Both genders can interbreed with humans—female merfolk produce exceptionally beautiful offspring, while male merfolk father children who inherit their grotesque appearance (females resemble humans, males do not). This race is relatively obscure and could be portrayed as seafaring. Real-world inspirations could include Fujian Province or Southeast Asian Chinese-majority nations.
6. Phoenix-People 凤族: As China’s counterpart to the dragon, the phoenix（凤凰） is a natural choice for a civilized race. While post-Han China often associates the phoenix with female supreme authority, males can also be called "phoenix"—such as the Crown Prince of Emperor Chongzhen (Zhu Youjian), who was said to possess "phoenix grace," or the infamous Emperor Murong Chong, nicknamed the "Phoenix Emperor" for his time as a consort in Luoyang (as referenced in the poem: "One female, one male, flying together into the purple palace"). Emperor Taizong of Tang (Li Shimin) was also nicknamed "Little Phoenix." Traditionally, the phoenix is a collective term—the male is the "feng,凤" the female the "huang.凰" As the king of birds, the phoenix is supremely beautiful, and its song brings prosperity, though it lacks the phoenix’s (Greek) rebirth ability. A fantasy China based on the phoenix would likely be prosperous but defensively oriented, rarely initiating aggression. As a bird-based race, they might possess flight and have close ties to Taoism. Historical references could include the Northern Song Dynasty or Western Jin Dynasty.

 

[zeruosi]

Curious about how you feel about other depictions of 'Fantasy China' such as Warhammer Cathay or Dominions Tien Chi.

MA T'ien Ch'i Imperial Bureaucracy - illwiki: Dominions 5 Wiki

t-ien-ch-i-ma MA T'ien Ch'i Imperial Bureaucracy Lore T'ien Ch'i is obviously influenced by China. I couldn't even resist the name Spring and Autumn, from the period of the same name in Chinese history. Chinese history is rich and there is plenty to draw upon. Daoism and its five elements...

illwiki.com

I can't see... due to the firewall.

Regarding the Cathay Empire in Warhammer Fantasy, I believe it is, to some extent, the best depiction of a Chinese-inspired fantasy nation. While Pandaria in WoW is also commendable, its geographical setting feels somewhat odd.

However, there are still some dissenting voices online in China who argue that the Cathay Empire's setting has one flaw: the absence of the concept that all people possess dragon blood within them. This is seen as a minor regret.

 

[zeruosi]

To be fair, your platforms for doing so are limited.

I know.
That Reddit might be a relatively better platform, but due to the firewall, posting there would be quite troublesome for me.

 

[SAmaster]

Then there are the fantasy civilizations and races. Since Western fantasy works have largely established their racial frameworks, introducing any additional races would make the setting feel somewhat off—such as lizardmen, tiger-people, snake-people, or even panda-people.

I have two proposals:

First Proposal: Without introducing new races, depicting a fantasy version of China is relatively straightforward. The primary race would be humans, mixed with some elves and dragons—perhaps even fully hybridized, as both real-world and fantasy China have historically been highly assimilative, including the Chinese language itself, which is a fusion of multiple linguistic influences. (Under the same rules, of course.)

Second Proposal: If new races are to be introduced, the following options could be considered:

1. Tiger-People 虎人: Tigers are the apex predators of East Asia, and making them a civilized race is somewhat plausible. However, due to their inherent nature, they would likely exhibit extreme aggression. Real-world inspirations could include the Qin Dynasty, early Tang Dynasty, Yuan Dynasty, or Qing Dynasty—regimes known for their expansionist ambitions and conquests.
2. Panda-People 熊猫人: As China’s national symbol, pandas are uniquely tied to the country’s identity, making them a viable choice for a civilized race. Though generally peaceful, pandas are carnivorous by nature. According to Chinese mythology, the war god Chi You rode a panda, nicknamed the "Iron-Eating Beast." A fantasy China dominated by panda-people would likely be expansionist yet prosperous, with occasional military campaigns. Real-world inspirations could include the Han Dynasty, most of the Tang Dynasty, or the Ming Dynasty.
3. Dragon-People 龙人: Dragons are China’s spiritual totems, making them a natural choice for a civilized race. However, Chinese dragons differ significantly from Western fantasy dragons, resembling more the feathered serpents (Quetzalcoatl) or nagas of other mythologies. As a purely fantastical creature, dragons could represent a civilization’s golden age—such as the peak periods of various dynasties. That said, dragons are dragons, while dragon-people are their degenerated descendants, potentially portraying a decaying empire—like the late Qing Dynasty. Most people would understand this analogy without further explanation.
4. Fox-People 狐人/狐族: Fox worship is widespread across East Asia, making fox-people a viable race. Notably, while most famous fox spirits are female, male foxes exist as well, and both genders are typically depicted as elegant, beautiful, and highly seductive, often possessing great intelligence. A fox-people-dominated region would likely be militarily weak but economically prosperous, possibly adopting a non-monarchical system. Given their widespread influence, they could also be portrayed as exploratory. A historical reference could be the Southern Song Dynasty.
5. Merfolk (Aquatic Humans) 鲛人: Similar to mermaids but exclusively aquatic, these creatures might have limited amphibious abilities. Males are ugly, while females are beautiful, and their tears turn into pearls. They are skilled weavers, producing the prized "fish-silk" fabric. Some records describe their voices as infant-like, while others note their meat is delicious. Certain texts suggest male merfolk are cannibalistic. Both genders can interbreed with humans—female merfolk produce exceptionally beautiful offspring, while male merfolk father children who inherit their grotesque appearance (females resemble humans, males do not). This race is relatively obscure and could be portrayed as seafaring. Real-world inspirations could include Fujian Province or Southeast Asian Chinese-majority nations.
6. Phoenix-People 凤族: As China’s counterpart to the dragon, the phoenix（凤凰） is a natural choice for a civilized race. While post-Han China often associates the phoenix with female supreme authority, males can also be called "phoenix"—such as the Crown Prince of Emperor Chongzhen (Zhu Youjian), who was said to possess "phoenix grace," or the infamous Emperor Murong Chong, nicknamed the "Phoenix Emperor" for his time as a consort in Luoyang (as referenced in the poem: "One female, one male, flying together into the purple palace"). Emperor Taizong of Tang (Li Shimin) was also nicknamed "Little Phoenix." Traditionally, the phoenix is a collective term—the male is the "feng,凤" the female the "huang.凰" As the king of birds, the phoenix is supremely beautiful, and its song brings prosperity, though it lacks the phoenix’s (Greek) rebirth ability. A fantasy China based on the phoenix would likely be prosperous but defensively oriented, rarely initiating aggression. As a bird-based race, they might possess flight and have close ties to Taoism. Historical references could include the Northern Song Dynasty or Western Jin Dynasty.

I prefer the approach of putting European fantasy races in a fantasy China, as while that might be a bit more eurocentric, it doesn't make sense if humans are the ONLY race to live on multiple continents, while fantasy races are highly localized.

Beastfolk variants translate very well according to local geography.

Elves I think fall in line well with the focus on 'superpowers through enlightenment' to dumb it down, as Elves being long-lived tend to be superior at humans in most things thanks to experience. Since Elves are often split into different groups, like Wood Elf, or Dark Elf, do you think there could be a good default name for 'chinese elves'? Pulp fantasy would leave me to believe 'Jade Elves' would be it, but I'd like to hear from someone who actually knows about this stuff.

Orcs and Goblins would also work well I think thanks to them being an 'uncivilized enemy race', I think that tranlsates well since China has seen itself as the epicenter of civilization so the same sort of themes can cross over easily.

What I think would be trickier are dwarves or halfings, which I'm not sure if there's a good analogue there. I'm also a fan of sticking amazons all over the place, I don't know if you have any thoughts on that.

 

[nyetflix2]

I can't see... due to the firewall.

Regarding the Cathay Empire in Warhammer Fantasy, I believe it is, to some extent, the best depiction of a Chinese-inspired fantasy nation. While Pandaria in WoW is also commendable, its geographical setting feels somewhat odd.

However, there are still some dissenting voices online in China who argue that the Cathay Empire's setting has one flaw: the absence of the concept that all people possess dragon blood within them. This is seen as a minor regret.

In the same vein I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on Cantha in the guild wars universe.

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Cantha

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cantha

Hopefully the firewall doesn't cover this as I know there is a large population of Chinese players. Also the first game at least was a bit controversial for mixing different East Asian architectural styles, names, etc, plus 2 of the 4 regions weren't really even Asian but more like Gothic and... Idk, sea nomads? The expansion added ninja and shaman classes lol. But other than that, thoughts? It's probably pretty goofy but I played it a lot growing up.

 

[Freshplayer]

I think Shanhaijing, Classics of Mountains and Seas, could be the best source for this topic.

1. Lushu
The Lushu (鹿蜀) is a mythical creature. It looks like a horse, has a white head, a red tail, and tiger-like stripes on its body; its cry resembles human singing. According to tradition, people in Hunan are said to have seen a Lu-shu during Ming-dynasty temple rites (note by Wu Renzhen). Another belief holds that if one wears the animal’s hide or uses it as a swaddling cloth (Hu Wenhuan adds: “people sleep on its skin”), one’s descendants will flourish.

2. Jiuweihu, Nine-tailed Fox
The Nine-tailed Fox appears frequently in Shan Hai Jing and other ancient Chinese texts as a significant mythological creature. Described as a fox with nine tails, its cry resembles that of a baby. Legends say eating its meat can repel evil and poison. Though it appears twice in Shan Hai Jing, it's not clearly described as auspicious in early sources. Later traditions transformed the Nine-tailed Fox into a symbol of beauty, fortune, and fertility, especially linked to royal women. Guo Pu interpreted it as a good omen. During the Han dynasty, stories emerged of foxes turning into beautiful women. One tale tells of a man encountering a nine-tailed fox who later became his wife. The Nine-tailed Fox became associated with Western Mother Goddess (Xi Wangmu) and is commonly seen in Han tomb art, often paired with toads and three-legged crows—symbols of cosmic harmony and prosperity.

3. Queshen, Crane God
From Mount Zhaoyao to Mount Buwei, there are ten mountain deities known collectively as the Crane Gods, all characterized by bird bodies and dragon heads. These deities appear in two main forms: one with a human face and dragon-headed bird body, as seen in illustrations from sources like the Jiang Yinggao edition, the Collected Illustrations from the Present and Past, and the Chengdu or Yin editions; the other with a fully dragon-headed bird form, as shown in works such as the Hu Wenhuan edition, a Japanese edition, and the Wang Wan edition where the figure is labeled as the Southern Mountain God.

4. Huaihuai
The Huahui (pronounced húhuái) is a creature that resembles a human, but its entire body is covered in stiff bristles like a boar’s. It lives in caves and hibernates through the winter. Its call sounds like the thud of chopping wood. Wherever it appears, it is said to herald great chaos under Heaven. Hu Wenhuan describes it as “glowing with light, shaped like a macaque, with a human face and boar-like body.” Guo Pu’s commentary calls it an ominous beast whose appearance signals disorder and upheaval, bringing unrest and misfortune to the land. Huangfu Mi, in Reading the Classic of Mountains and Seas, writes: “The country has a great misfortune—Kang Zhuang travels in the form of the Huahui.”

5. Xiefu (also written as Xiaofu) is a large ape-like creature, also known by the name Lu. According to Guo Pu’s commentary, it is found in the mountains of present-day Jianping. It resembles a massive dog, but also looks like a macaque, with yellow-black coloring, long limbs, and a fondness for rushing at people’s heads. It is said to be capable of hurling stones at humans.

6. Jingwei: “In the Mountain of Fajiu, where many zhe trees grow, there is a bird that looks like a crow, with patterned head, white beak, and red feet. Its name is Jingwei, and its cry sounds like ‘jiao.’ It was once the youngest daughter of the Flame Emperor, named Nüwa. While playing by the Eastern Sea, Nüwa drowned and never returned, and so became Jingwei. She now constantly carries twigs and stones from the Western Mountains to fill up the Eastern Sea.

7: Nüba: the daughter of the Yellow Emperor (Huangdi) whom she aided during his Battle at Zhuolu against Chiyou. After Chiyou had fielded a wind god (Feng Bo) and a rain god (Yu Shi), Ba descended from heaven to use her drought power to defeat their wind and rain powers. She is one of the first goddesses attested to in Chinese literature, appearing in the early collection of poetry, the Shijing, as well as in the later Shanhaijing.[1] Nüba can be considered to be an ancient Chinese mythical drought demon.[2] After having descended from Heaven to aid Huangdi at Zhuolu, instead of returning to heaven, Ba wandered to the northern parts of the earth. Wherever Ba appeared, there would be a drought. In the Book of the Later Han, Yinglong was connected as a companion to Nüba in the myth. They fought simultaneously against Chiyou's forces. This relationship led to the mythological romance of Nüba and Yinglong in later centuries. She is one of the four ancestors of the jiangshi. She became a jiangshi by one part of Denglong's soul entering her body.

8. Xiaoming & Zhuguang
In legend, a daughter of Emperor Shun.
The Classic of Mountains and Seas · Classic of Regions Within the Seas: The North states:

“Shun’s wife, of the Dengbi clan, gave birth to Xiaoming and Zhuguang. They dwell in the great marshes of the Yellow River, and the divine light of these two daughters can illuminate an area of one hundred li.”

Xie Lingyun of the Liu-Song dynasty (Southern Dynasties) writes in his poem Slow Song:

“Ehuang rose from the shores of the Xiang,
Xiaoming emerged from the islets of the Yellow River.”

 

[8816boo]

Here are some of my general thoughts on fantasy China.

Geography: Mountains matter.

It doesn't have to be the exact same sort of location or even size as modern China, but needs certain features to be identifiably 'China'. It should probably be a flat country with large, navigable rivers, with an ocean on at least one side. Generally it should have geographic barriers to physical expansion on it's other sides, and have the ability to grow rice. There are a lot of things which I think can be changed around a bit for fun while still having the country remain identifiably china; for example it's relative isolation from other cultures, such as being much closer geographically to a Roman based counterpart civilization or no steppe people to it's north due to climate. Similarly, I think a china that 'faces' a different direction like west could work, but would need to take the changes that might cause to it's society/history into account. Finally, a china with more/fewer/significantly altered rivers would of course have trade and agriculture as well as large cities developing in different locations.

Society: Eunuchs are overdone.

Part of what I find interesting about real world China is just how heavily influenced east and southeast Asia were by them over time. Any changes you make to a counterpart of similar size will have repercussions throughout the cultures and politics of nations around them. For example, a fantasy China that uses, say, Lion instead of Dragon imagery should have that reflected in the architecture and art around them, not just their own. Long term changes should also have dramatic effects- a China where the merchant class managed to get out from under the boot of the Aristocracy/bureaucracy and flourish would look very different after a few hundred years to our history. Of course there's also the factor of whatever magic system you may or may not have, a fantasy China where wizard-warlords are powerful enough to resist the central government indefinitely might result in an extended warring states period, and eventually increased culture fragmentation.

 

[Zerodv]

Then there are the fantasy civilizations and races. Since Western fantasy works have largely established their racial frameworks, introducing any additional races would make the setting feel somewhat off—such as lizardmen, tiger-people, snake-people, or even panda-people.

I have two proposals:

First Proposal: Without introducing new races, depicting a fantasy version of China is relatively straightforward. The primary race would be humans, mixed with some elves and dragons—perhaps even fully hybridized, as both real-world and fantasy China have historically been highly assimilative, including the Chinese language itself, which is a fusion of multiple linguistic influences. (Under the same rules, of course.)

How would you approach Elves in China? Especially if we say they do ultimately stem from the "west", whatever that means in universe.

 

[zeruosi]

In the same vein I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on Cantha in the guild wars universe.

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Cantha

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cantha

Hopefully the firewall doesn't cover this as I know there is a large population of Chinese players. Also the first game at least was a bit controversial for mixing different East Asian architectural styles, names, etc, plus 2 of the 4 regions weren't really even Asian but more like Gothic and... Idk, sea nomads? The expansion added ninja and shaman classes lol. But other than that, thoughts? It's probably pretty goofy but I played it a lot growing up.

Sadly, the firewall still blocks access to it. The game guild wars due to its fame, has a Chinese-language wiki on the Chinese internet. Well, I don’t know much about it. What I do know is that they rely on emerald—a resource harvested from magically frozen oceans—as a key material.

According to some Chinese netizens, this fictional nation resembles more of a blend between China and Korea compared to actual China.

 

[zeruosi]

Since Elves are often split into different groups, like Wood Elf, or Dark Elf, do you think there could be a good default name for 'chinese elves'? Pulp fantasy would leave me to believe 'Jade Elves' would be it, but I'd like to hear from someone who actually knows about this stuff.

I feel it's odd to associate elves with rocks in naming conventions—this is more typical of dwarves or elemental beings. If it's a wood elf subrace, they should logically be tied to plants, so I'd prefer using iconic Chinese flora as prefixes, such as "Bamboo Elves."

For high elf subraces, we could incorporate totemic animals or distinctive climate features as prefixes, like "Monsoon Elves" or "Loong Elves."

As for dark elf subraces, we should draw inspiration from malevolent figures in Chinese mythology, such as "Chaos Elves" or "Taotie Elves."

I'm also a fan of sticking amazons all over the place, I don't know if you have any thoughts on that.

This isn't a major issue. Chinese history has never lacked female military units or female generals, though they were often associated with early dynasties or southwestern tusi (local chieftains). Therefore, if you want to create Amazon-like warrior women, you should draw inspiration from the tusi of Yunnan and Guizhou. If you aim to present a Han Chinese flavor, perhaps you might look to the Shang Dynasty for inspiration.

How would you approach Elves in China? Especially if we say they do ultimately stem from the "west", whatever that means in universe.

In my view, elves in a fantasy version of China should resemble wood elves in lifestyle—living in scattered villages amidst the mountains, relatively isolated, shrouded in mystery, and neighboring certain cultivators (if such exist).

I don't believe dark elves would be accepted; they are intolerable to orderly societies and might be associated with demonic arts.

As for high elves, given that elves are inevitably a minority population—and with human culture being highly developed—they would gradually assimilate everywhere, especially in densely populated, culturally advanced regions like China or India.