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philios82

Second Lieutenant
89 Badges
Mar 10, 2009
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I was playing Crusader Kings and thinking about the way you create a claim on a title. You basically pay prestige points in exchange for a claim on any title you want. This makes the game boil down to growing your prestige enough to be able to afford to 'buy' a title, declare war and then repeat once you've nicked it.

Instead, how about you have to spend time and money manufacturing a claim. You spend gold and resources creating evidence, perhaps by setting a focus like the espionage feature in HOI 3. So say I'm the Duke of Connaught, I can set my focus on building a legitimate claim on the county of Meath. The more effort you put into the claim the more other rulers will accept it. You could still go the quick and dirty route and just announce yourself the rightful ruler but this would give you badboy and damage your relations with everyone.

Claiming a King's title should all but impossible unless you possess some of the land that comprises that kingdom. Even then other rulers should hate you for it.

Talking of Kings titles, what if any Lord in a realm could proclaim themselves King. Obivously the real King would get an automatic Causus Belli against them. But for every rival who calls themselves King the the value of the title decreases, so two Kings of England would only get a quarter of the monthly prestige each for example, this would give the true king an incentive to act quickly. This would allow for proper civil wars where a powerful Duke decides he could do a better job than the present King.
 
Nice thoughts here. Hard to implement though.
 
I was playing Crusader Kings and thinking about the way you create a claim on a title. You basically pay prestige points in exchange for a claim on any title you want. This makes the game boil down to growing your prestige enough to be able to afford to 'buy' a title, declare war and then repeat once you've nicked it.

Instead, how about you have to spend time and money manufacturing a claim. You spend gold and resources creating evidence, perhaps by setting a focus like the espionage feature in HOI 3. So say I'm the Duke of Connaught, I can set my focus on building a legitimate claim on the county of Meath. The more effort you put into the claim the more other rulers will accept it. You could still go the quick and dirty route and just announce yourself the rightful ruler but this would give you badboy and damage your relations with everyone.

Claiming a King's title should all but impossible unless you possess some of the land that comprises that kingdom. Even then other rulers should hate you for it.

Talking of Kings titles, what if any Lord in a realm could proclaim themselves King. Obivously the real King would get an automatic Causus Belli against them. But for every rival who calls themselves King the the value of the title decreases, so two Kings of England would only get a quarter of the monthly prestige each for example, this would give the true king an incentive to act quickly. This would allow for proper civil wars where a powerful Duke decides he could do a better job than the present King.

I do like your take on this issue. I would prefer to have to establish an "ancient claim" by espionage (or through universities maybe or some other creative means) than allowing for grabbing titles, which I think should be disallowed unless you have some other form of legitimacy (like a royal marriage). For Catholics, the papacy should play a big role in this and excommunication could have a big part to play. The Pope was ultimate arbitrator of who had legitimate titles to what, at least outside the HRE.
 
Id like to see Claiming Titles gone

maybe you build support among the title your after's vassals and court members and then you get a legitimate claim from being named by the court as successor but not inheriting as you dont have enough of a majority not being in any way a legal heir or carrying full support. This would put you in a position to contest the title with an actual CB not just saying, i want this so i have a right to, but actually needing to have a right for it before you can have it.
 
Yea the buying titles way of getting claims should be updated.
 
Id like to see Claiming Titles gone

maybe you build support among the title your after's vassals and court members and then you get a legitimate claim from being named by the court as successor but not inheriting as you dont have enough of a majority not being in any way a legal heir or carrying full support. This would put you in a position to contest the title with an actual CB not just saying, i want this so i have a right to, but actually needing to have a right for it before you can have it.

I'm also of this opinion.
 
In CK I found the claiming of larger kingship titles rather annoying. Before you could contest the king of France, you probably had to be the king of France himself.

So larger titles should be more easy to be claimed, not 66% IIRC.

Limits for establishing vacant kingshiptitles also should drop.
 
Id like to see Claiming Titles gone

maybe you build support among the title your after's vassals and court members and then you get a legitimate claim from being named by the court as successor but not inheriting as you dont have enough of a majority not being in any way a legal heir or carrying full support. This would put you in a position to contest the title with an actual CB not just saying, i want this so i have a right to, but actually needing to have a right for it before you can have it.

This makes alot of sense. So you basically bribe the courtier and vassals into recognising your claim, some would and some wouldn't. Other lords could do the same and potentially you have three or four people with claims to the same title. Sounds like a recipe for war :D
 
This makes alot of sense. So you basically bribe the courtier and vassals into recognising your claim, some would and some wouldn't. Other lords could do the same and potentially you have three or four people with claims to the same title. Sounds like a recipe for war :D

That's sort of what happened at times during wars of succession. I would point to Scotland during the turn of the 13th century, but there are other cases. It's better to be the second cousin of the dead childless king by marriage with ten thousand men in your service and a full coffer than the paternal nephew with a rusty blade. Bribery, blackmail, sweeping promises, hiring brigands, using influence with the Church all help. It would be nice to have pretenders to the throne, more active than in EU3, since we will have detailed family trees.