CoA project

[Hasimir Fenring]

Grand CoA Update (GCU)

CK 1.05 will be out soon ( I hope ), now it's time to focus on the graphic modifications. I've discussed with Gratianus and Birger Jarl and the project is quite simple but also quite ambitious: update all of the CoAs in CK.... . To accomplish our work, I think we need to build a team to discuss about the shield shapes, debates about CoAs based on historical arguments etc...

Maybe our first goal is to choose shapes for Kingdoms, duchies and counties, in order that our first CoA will perfectly fit in the shape.

BTW we'll also have to discuss about the texture, because I'really don't like the wooden one and I think I'm not the only one . Maybe we could choose a metallic shape like Birger's one.

So now I wait for volunteers !! "Everyone is invited"

edit: here is the 3 candidates for the poll : "Best shield shapes 2005"

1st: Gratianus
2nd: BeBro & Birger Jarl
3rd: BeBro & Birger Jarl

 

[Gratianus]

I support you, HF.

I enter my shield shapes to discuss.

Self-recommendation ( ):
They are well balanced symmetrically, and easily recognized at a glance which is which. The Paradox' shield taste remains, and so they are not gay for the game graphics.

P.S.
Is there any web site to register CoA's? I sent a PM to XieChengnuo to ask him for registering my CoA's. But his PM box was full. I think it's better to ask his help.

 

[Hasimir Fenring]

good work Gratianus, maybe you should colour the crescent in gold ?

here is other shield shapes found in the forum:

and

Made by BeBro moded by Birger Jarl: great work, looks pretty but there is a problem with duchy and county which are too similar to myself.

 

[Ayeshteni]

good work Gratianus, maybe you should colour the crescent in gold ?

here is other shield shapes found in the forum:

and

Made by BeBro moded by Birger Jarl: great work, looks pretty but there is a problem with duchy and county which are too similar to myself.

My 2 euro worth... Use BeBro shields (substituting his King shield without orb and scepter for ducal shield)

I would rather have the wood texture myself.
yours, wish you all luck in this mighty endevour.
Ayeshteni

 

[Havard]

So now I wait for volunteers !! "Everyone is invited"

If nothing else, I can offer server space if needed.

 

[Hasimir Fenring]

@ Ayeshteni : not a bad idea at all !! I will put it in my post.

@ Harvard: your help is welcome But now we've got nothing very concrete. I will surely contact you if the the project is successful

 

[unmerged(27913)]

My 2 euro worth... Use BeBro shields (substituting his King shield without orb and scepter for ducal shield)

Exactly. I would also use his original duchy shield(shown here) for duchy as it is more bigger and so the CoA's look better. I use such setup myself btw.

I would rather have the wood texture myself.
yours, wish you all luck in this mighty endevour.
Ayeshteni

Indeed. I like the woodtexture better myself, however I would not complain if it was more metallic like some proposed and made. But I'd say thats science ficition.

Btw. I Gratianus' shield shapes are also very good and used them myself personally as well, but BeBro's shield shapes are really original and fresh, but they go excellent with your CoA's gratianus.

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

My 2 euro worth... Use BeBro shields (substituting his King shield without orb and scepter for ducal shield)

Yes, since with his original (which is fantastic work) the difference between ducal and county shields is a bit hard to see.

 

[Hasimir Fenring]

I haven't found the BeBro ducal shape, (I mean the kingdom one without the globe and the scepters)maybe a problem with links ?. Can anyone post it so we can judge which one is the best ?

 

[unmerged(27913)]

Look here -> http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=199314
It's in the small add zip file.

 

[cdcdrr]

I'm more comfortable with Gratianus' suggestion, if my word's worth something. Also, I think a major overhaul is neccessary for some of the Lowlands COAs.

Westfriesland = COA shield be the Holland COA on the left side. And Friesland's COA on the right. Note that I mean the real Frisian COA, not the one used for Frisia now.
http://www.ngw.nl/n/noordhol.htm

Frisia = As far as I've sought, that current COA is never even mentioned in the same sentence as Friesland. I think the COA used for Ducal Friesland is the right one.
http://www.ngw.nl/f/frieslan.htm

Ostfriesland (AKA Groningen) = Groningen COA obviously. It is a four-quartered shield with on 1 & 4 a two headed eagle with shield and on 2 & 3 the Frisian flag
http://www.ngw.nl/g/groningp.htm

Sticht = I'm not dissatisfied with the current one, but would like to suggest there is a more complex COA. Actually, I think Utrecht/Sticht has had several COAs.
http://www.ngw.nl/u/utrechtp.htm

Loon = This should be Limburg's Coat of Arms. As a matter of fact, the whole province would be better of named Limburg. As the province is much more know than Loon (what or wherever that may be).
http://www.ngw.nl/int/bel/prov/limburg.htm

If there is going to be any re-arranging of duchies, some duchies in the Netherlands should be replaced by others. Flanderns, Friesland, Hainaut and Artois where never duchies. Gelre, Limburg and Brabant where. While Holland and Flanders where at least as powerful as an average duchy. I'm just saying this in case there are going to be switches there, for some more COA pondering might be in order for that.

Oh, and I think Oldenburg's COA is incorrect. Not sure.

I believe that's all. I hope I have been of help.

 

[Spruce]

Flanders is considered to be a duchy in CK due to the fact it had vassals.

f.e. Boulogne, Artois, Guines where vassals to Flanders.

Flanders was one of the strongest vassals of the French crown in 1066 - it's pretty clear why those Frenchies didn't want Flanders to be called a duchy,

 

[Spruce]

C&D =

about Limburg and Loon.

Loon is something completely different from Limburg. The duchy of Limburg was one time a duchy in the vicinity of Maastricht and the capital was actually a city called Limburg - (between today's Eupen and Verviers) it was also an old ducal title held by nobility.

Limburg was quite small and weak - it got destroyed one time and the name rather stands for a small part of today's Dutch Limburg (around Maastricht).

Loon is correct - the county of Loon existed during those days and was somewhat larger in surface then Limburg. But basicly it was as weak and most often was a vassal to some local duke,

Loon got mixed up some times between Liege and Brabant etc... Loon is what you can describe as todays Belgian Limburg...

Bars of yellow and red that's Loons COA - still used in todays Belgian Limburg.

It seems Paradox decided to not include the duchy of Limburg because they had to draw the line somwhere. F.e. County of Namur, Malmedy, Stavelot etc. etc.

no big deal - but don't shout that Loon is not correct - that's not true,

 

[unmerged(27913)]

If there is going to be any re-arranging of duchies, some duchies in the Netherlands should be replaced by others. Flanderns, Friesland, Hainaut and Artois where never duchies. Gelre, Limburg and Brabant where. While Holland and Flanders where at least as powerful as an average duchy. I'm just saying this in case there are going to be switches there, for some more COA pondering might be in order for that.

Friesland was not a duchy but it was a separate entity withint HRE and Germany and I'd say it was powerful enough and important to consider it at least a duchy. Flanders was not a duchy, at least not in CK period, but as said this was one of the strongest French vassals and so it should be considered Duchy. We have similar example with Toulouse(although we have it two times since there is also Languedoc?!?!). Also if we would add Gelre there is just no place for Limburg as we would need to remove Lower Lorraine/Lothier and thats something I wouldn't recommend....perhaps maybe if we made it from Julich and Loon, but with Gelre and Holland this would be ridiculously croweded. On the Holland issue yes I agree it should also be a duchy, it was a county but very important and powerful especially in later period around 14th century.

Anyway I am making a small mod that will reshape the duchies and add some that are missing and remove someone that should not be there(Artois, Belgrade, Istria, etc...).

Oh, and I think Oldenburg's COA is incorrect. Not sure.

Nope, it's ok.

 

[Gratianus]

I have been caught in a dilemma.

I have already made my custom CoA's for my new shapes. Remaking my CoA's over again to fit with the other shapes is hard too much. Because my CoA's at least amount to 1000.

on the other hand, everyone has his preferences and should use the ones which he like respectively. I hesitate very much to ask all to use my shapes.

So, should we choose the best ones of those various types of the shield shapes?

EDIT: The same thing applies to woodtextue and Birger's shading.

 

[Birger]

Lets make one GUSM* and a EGUSM*, just like in EU2.
With an action for the template you only need the source images.

GUSM
- Woodtexture + new shieldshapes (the woodtexture doesn't really match BeBro's excellent shieldstyle if you ask me...)

EGUSM
- New shading + new shieldshapes and styles

* - just to write something, anyone got a name for this project?

Btw, the GUFSM took about 2 years to finish so there's no rush...

 

[Birger]

I'd like to see this for the new shieldshapes:

Kingdom (BeBro), Duchy (Me) & County (BeBro)

BeBro

 

[Enravota]

i back up the shields offered by the Jarl. and as my session ends tomorrow i'll be glad to help out as much as i can

 

[Hasimir Fenring]

Lets make one GUSM* and a EGUSM*, just like in EU2.
With an action for the template you only need the source images.

GUSM
- Woodtexture + new shieldshapes (the woodtexture doesn't really match BeBro's excellent shieldstyle if you ask me...)

EGUSM
- New shading + new shieldshapes and styles

* - just to write something, anyone got a name for this project?

Btw, the GUFSM took about 2 years to finish so there's no rush...

@BG:I think you're right BG, let's start a GUSM before. What about the shield shapes? should we organise a poll ?

@ C-D: great research but now we are talking about the shield shapes so we will talk about Frisia and Loon later .

 

[Hasimir Fenring]

all things considered I think (that's my opinion) that we should choose Gratianus'shield shapes + wood texture for the beginning. Like Gratianus said:
"They are well balanced symmetrically, and easily recognized at a glance which is which. The Paradox' shield taste remains, and so they are not gay for the game graphics."

Later when our project will be finished, we could change for BeBro/BG work + new metallic (or something else) template. I think this is a good solution for the beginning, isnt it ?