Coat Of Arms and other issues

[Xain]

I already posted it in dev diary II, as an answer to Nick B II's post. But, since it doesn't deal with baronies, I'm afraid that could be off topic. I'm posting it again here to be sure

Originally Posted by Nick B II
How will a Baron's CoA be determined?

In CK1 the Counties were static so it was easy to just assign all of them a bmp. In CK2 entirely new Baronies will be created during the game. Will there by dynastic arms (ie: all Capet Barons use Azure a semy of fleur de lis or), will all possible Baronies be named and given a CoA in the game-files, or will they be determined algorithmically?
That's a good question, IMHO, and, since no-one answered, I try to bring it again to the surface.

1) <<Will there by dynastic arms (ie: all Capet Barons use Azure a semy of fleur de lis or), will all possible Baronies be named and given a CoA in the game-files, or will they be determined algorithmically? >>
[for a huger debate on this issue, see also http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?494223-Wanted-Quartering-of-coats-of-arms ]


Given the fact that that new CKII seems to be more dinasty-oriented than State-oriented, I think that dynastic arms would be more appropriate ; hopefully, dynastic CoA should evolve following the ruler's titles and claims. Also, the idea of combining dynastic arms with the "flag" of a territory by a layer system could give an immediate, graphical, idea of what dynasty is in charge in a given territory.


2) In this case could a new ruler chose "his own" CoA (like, choose between three or four, algorithmically-created, possible CoA?)


This question leads me to others, related to the player's choice and the gameplay at large :


3) Will it be possible to choose the "capital city" of his realm (or at least the city where the ruler resides)?
In CKII the "capital city" was determined by proximity with the supposed "historical capital" (not always accurate) of the "main realm". This sounds quite unreal in some case. During a game, my faithful wife and (un)faithful Duchess of Barcelona was repelled out of Spain by a villain moorish counter-offensive. She held the island of Menorca though, and the rich and prosperous county of Trapani in Sicily (of which she was countess in the first place). The "capital" of the Duchy, where the CoA of my dear beloved was, was automatically set in Menorca ; personnally, I have some problems figuring my aging, cultivated, adorable German Catholic wife choosing to live in a minuscule, ill-protected, island of muslim misbeleivers, instead of going back to her "civilized", rich and well-guarded county of Trapani.


4) Can we chose our "main title", the one who will be displayed on our CoA (in case this one won't be dynastic) and who will determine the colour of our armies'flags?
This time again, I will report a gaming experience to clarify the problem. The founder of my dinasty was a humble Count of Corsica, and, in three generations'space I had conquered Sardinia (and hence Duchy of Sardinia), Sicily and a huge part of Southern Italy (and inherited of a county in England too - can't remember which one) - so that I could eventually create the title of King of Sicily.
Helping an ally at war, without almost wanting it, I found myself King of - if I remember correctly - Burgundy, but controlling just a single territory in that kingdom.
At any rate, the increased prestige of being a King allowed me to finally create the title of King of Sicily.
Unfortunately, my capital city, my CoA, the reddish color of all my armies, continued telling me that I was in the first place "King of Burgundy" - quite silly, for a ruler who was of Italian culture, and who had just a territory in Burgundy while holding the tile of Duke of Sicily and Count of Palermo and Messina, and having the Duke of Apulia, of Calabria and of Salerno between my vassals.


5) Will you be given the possibility to choose your children's name (between a list of names, or - less likely - typing a new one), or will it be chosen automatically like in CKI ? [ok, already here http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?505499-Naming-Children ]


6) Will you be allowed to change the county's, province's or settlement's name during the game?
That may be useful, for example, when conquering Muslim territories with distinctive Arab names - il would be nice to have the option to "rechristen" them giving more Christian names to them.


7) Will languages be implemented?
I know that it will maybe be a mere "duplicate" of the "culture", but still, in a more role-play oriented game it would be nice to see, for example, if the Norman ruler of Puglia speaks just his Norman dialect, or Latin and his dialect, or if he abandoned Norman in order to adopt the language of the territory he controls.


And two, more personal, specific and less gameplay-related questions :


8) Will "Kingdom of Sicily" be emended, with the capital city moved to Palermo and not Naples (Naples will become capital only after 1372 - after a short-lived separation of the Kingdom of Sicily into two kingdoms - of Naples and of Sicily)?


9) Will there be a proper editor, or mods should be applied the old way, by fiddling with database files?

Ok, that's a lot of questions, but if Doomdark will answer even to , say, one or two, I'll be satisfied !

 

[Caranorn]

Just on the coat of arms. A while ago I was thinking coats of arms should be done in a way similar to the DNA system for character portraits. Essentially giving every character his own unique coat of arms based on his father's arms. These days I think that might be expecting a bit too much...

What might be possible and what would really be interesting would be personal arms for all titled characters (avoiding the need to create arms for landless courtiers and most women (who generally did not have unique arms)). Give each landed character at the start of the game (problem that 1066 is of course pre-heraldic so we have no historic arms for that scenario) a unique coa composed of several elements 1) basic arms (azure semy fleurs de lis or) 2) a cadency mark if needed (a label gules). If this character has a son or younger brother who is landless at the start of the game but is granted a title (player or ai) he would receive a new unique coat of arms based on that of his dynasty (so assuming the father here has "azure semy fleurs de lis or, a label gules overall" then the son could have "azure semy fleurs de lis or, a label gules charged with three besants or on each pendant" (sorry very rusty for english language blazonning) assuming no other character already uses those arms. Once the father dies the oldest son would inherit his arms (and thereby free his old cadenced arms for the next relative needing his own arms). Essentially the coat of arms images would be composed of several layers (1) the basic coa, 2-4) various layers of cadency) of graphics dynamically assembled very similar to the existing dna portraits, just that every coa displayed in the game should be unique (actually lets say unique within a dynasty as historically the uniqueness of arms never worked (dukes_of_Austria and lords_of_Perwez/counts_of_Vianden one of many examples of identical arms for different dynasties within the same realm). Also as old branches of dynasties die out the younger ones would adopt the more primitive arms. Oh and quartering arms (probably just the simple I and IV paternal, II and III maternal) should also be possible, preferably also other combinations of paternal and maternal arms (Limbourg "argent a lion rampant gules crowned or" and Luxembourg (1st dynasty) "barry or and gules" -> Luxembourg (3rd dynasty) "barry argent and azure, a lion rampant gules crowned or overall")...

And yes, such a system would be very complex even if simplified as proposed here. We'd also have serious problems with certain dynasties that died out in the pre-heraldic period (for my Luxembourg example we have no clue what Henry IV of Luxembourg (2nd dynasty) might have worn as arms, which means we wouldn't know what arms the counts of Namur (from which he was descended in the paternal line) might have borne if any (some have theorised a lion, even a crowned lion, but that theory has largely been disproven since)). Also some parts of Europe did not really abide by the french-english heraldic system as we've come to know it...