in ultra late game when growing and assembling pops takes too long, would it be viable way to continue increasing your pops by creating colony ships, colonizing planets or habitats and moving the last pop back to some developed worlds?
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It costs 200 influence to abandon a colony. Expensive, and probably not worth it, but possible.
Depopulation of colony costs 200 influence, and you cannot colonize new worlds constantly, making this strategy unprofitable.
Also, each new colony gives you 10 base empire size, so you would make research and edicts more expensive with each colony that you didn't abandon.
Also, each new colony gives you 10 base empire size, so you would make research and edicts more expensive with each colony that you didn't abandon.
At one point you could turn off all jobs and the auto-migration code would abandon the colony for you (eventually).
Dunno if that still works.
Dunno if that still works.
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I could be wrong but IIRC the time it takes for a planet to colonise is meant to be equivalent to the time it takes for a pop to grow. If that's the case then it's not any better than simply having a breeder world with no jobs.
Though hopefully these kind of shenanigans and incentives will go away in 4.0 with the removal of base growth.
Colony development takes constant time and is slower in early game than natural growth, but faster in late game. Also, there are traditions and technologies that increase the amount of pops that spawns after colony is developed. The whole reason abandonment of colony costs 200 influence is to discourage resettlement and recolonization.
Colony development doesn't take constant time, the game grows a pop behind your back, with the default +3 per month, and with "colony development speed" modifiers instead of "pop growth speed".
But the number to reach scale with logistic growth, like any pop, which is why it takes decades to colonize late game.
In late game, build robots. The max is around +1000 per month (11 cosmogenesis robot buildings with modularity and all their traits, + scavenger bot trait + contingency relic + governor trait + max ascension ring world).
But even a standard empire can reach around +400 (with cosmogenesis obviously).
If for some reason you need bio pops (livestocks), you can optimize it by rading instead of conquering your neighbors. They will produce bio pops faster than you since their logistic growth will be smaller.
But the number to reach scale with logistic growth, like any pop, which is why it takes decades to colonize late game.
In late game, build robots. The max is around +1000 per month (11 cosmogenesis robot buildings with modularity and all their traits, + scavenger bot trait + contingency relic + governor trait + max ascension ring world).
But even a standard empire can reach around +400 (with cosmogenesis obviously).
If for some reason you need bio pops (livestocks), you can optimize it by rading instead of conquering your neighbors. They will produce bio pops faster than you since their logistic growth will be smaller.
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What everyone is saying about the influence stuff being to discourage exactly this is true.
However.
If you use a genesis civic and the new worlds tradition I think you can effectively get at least 5 or so pops per rigamarole you go through. With late game influence bonuses like will to power and being custodian that might be a worthwhile trade.
However.
If you use a genesis civic and the new worlds tradition I think you can effectively get at least 5 or so pops per rigamarole you go through. With late game influence bonuses like will to power and being custodian that might be a worthwhile trade.
Presapient pops can only be created once per planet, for Genesis Architects. The second time you just add a preserve without any pops to fill it.
I think the best you can do is Calamitous Birth, Expansion, and Yuht Cryocore for 5 pops each time you colonize a normal world, or Expansion+Yuht for 3 pops every time you colonize a habitat (which gets a huge boost to colonization speed, giving you pops faster, but costing more influence per pop). You can also get up to 6 more pops per colony ship in any setup by having a council of all Advisors with Frontier Spirit III (which gives another pop). It'd be restrictive to get 6 officials on the council, though.
I suspect there are a few more sources of pops that I'm forgetting.
I think the best you can do is Calamitous Birth, Expansion, and Yuht Cryocore for 5 pops each time you colonize a normal world, or Expansion+Yuht for 3 pops every time you colonize a habitat (which gets a huge boost to colonization speed, giving you pops faster, but costing more influence per pop). You can also get up to 6 more pops per colony ship in any setup by having a council of all Advisors with Frontier Spirit III (which gives another pop). It'd be restrictive to get 6 officials on the council, though.
I suspect there are a few more sources of pops that I'm forgetting.
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I thought it was always constant time since it's pretty consistently 3-5 years in all stages of the game for me, but looking in more detail I think you're right. The wiki is technically correct for the start of the game (100 growth / 3 per month = 34 months rounding up), but doesn't mention it scales with the empire pop cost modifier.
Here's a midgame sample from a save file I had on hand:
The only colony development modifiers this empire has is +25% from Ceramo-Metal Infrastructure technology. I did not take the Expansion traditions or research the physics techs.
It costs me 185.7 pop growth points to grow a new pop on this empire. 185.7 / 3 / 1.25 (from the Ceramo-Metal bonus) gives me 50 months, which brings us from 2311.07 to 2315.09. The pop growth modifiers are indeed not counted, otherwise that would be a nasty penalty from Syamelle's Curse.
Since you're secretly growing a new pop for your colony, you would indeed not gain anything from abandoning and recolonizing your planets.
Wouldn't you get a bonus breeder colony for the duration?
And the breeder colony would grow N pops in the time that you usually grow 1, if you had effects that gave you bonus pops per new colony.
Assuming you don't have any effects increasing the number of starting pops, whether or not you gain anything would depend on whether your colonization speed bonus or your pop growth speed bonus is higher. I think colonization speed usually is, once you've researched the techs for it?
No, because the base number you work with on a breeder world will be 4.5 (or 6 if you modify the logistic growth scaling setting), while colonising will always be 3, so with enough modifiers it can be higher, a least with bio ascension and cybernetics.
But stacking all the sources of +pop per colony is an interresting solution, even if the full officials council isn't sexy, since there is no good solution for breeding bio pops yourself.
Covering a planet with cosmogenesis medical labs isn't that good, because the benefits are far lower than the robot building while locking the same amount of pops. It's only relevant on a planet with polymelic and thousands of pops, but that means no housing reduction building, so negative housing. Which means no auto ressetlement to the colony, even with open jobs.
The only good way to breed bio pop is if your breeder world can do something else at the same time.
Baazars can do it, you can easily reach like +500% trade vale +250% growth speed on every colony. The issue I have with this build is that you still don't produce enough pops to fill the worlds fast enough, so you have infinite trade value, but not science or alloys.
I haven't tried it since space faunas, you could ignore alloys now (and use, the god forbidden civic, worker's cooperative), but science is still missing.
Hopefully 4.0 will bring flesh closer to the machine.
