Correlation of State Machines Models to Certain Sprites

[unmerged(18985)]

A Few More Questions

These questions relate to my goal of mixing and matching various sprites in order to obtain my personal group that blends historical accuracy and graphical quality.

I have studied the Sekinoss tutorial in order to not impose on forum members excessively.

I would like to use the Panzer sprites in N!ghty's superb table of German sprites to sort out a few issues that I still need help on.

First, is it the case that requests for sprites of various panzers can not be met because there are a total of 38 levels of technology, based on State Machines charts, and only four levels of sprites available for most equipment types? Mathematically speaking each sprites must cover approximately 10, (38/4) technology levels, so one must pick one reprresentative type from each 10.

What determines the the trigger point, in terms of the 38 technology levels, at which the sprite moves from L1 to L2, etc? Is it possible to modify them if I choose?

Now, lets assume that I choose my representative models to be

the yellow prewar panzer - L1
the Panzer IV - L2
"Panther" - L3
"Tiger II" -L4

Let us also assume that job is nearly done for me because my current library of installed sprites incorporates all but the Panther. Is the procedure to unzip the Stoney sprite pack - hopefully the 11 essential *.spr files for the Panther will be present? Do I then merely paste them over the previous level three sprite?

I am also a little unsure of the use of the "X" and "Y" origin parameters in the *.spr. Are these a the starting and ebding points in terms of the technology levels which the sprite is intended to cover?

Next, if we are changing from a static to an animated sprite, does this require further adjustments, since the bmp is no longer square?

As you can see, my goal can be realized by learning how to change individual sprites to the best of the web and setting my personal tech levels for each to apply.

For instance, the games first dive bomber is the HS 123, while my current sprite library uses the Stuka D. I would like to substitute seikinoss fine HS 123 from the table as my L1 sprite and move the Stuka to L2.

I would really appreciate help from any members who feel that they can contribute.

Thanks.

 

[Gwalcmai]

Let's see if I can help in any way.

First, I don't think all levels of technology give you a new tank model, but the 38 you mentioned might be the number of models. But then, most of those are just the same model with a different gun. (say, improved light tank - 20mm+, improved light tank - 30mm+, continue).

What determines which model gets which sprite was covered in a recent thread, so I won't try to cover that.

The pack should have not only the 11 spr files, but also the sprite bmps and palette bmp. If you're unpacking by hand, you have to place them all in the correct dirs. The spr must overwrite the previous one for that level. And must contain the name of the correct bmps to use.

The origin parameters indicate to the display engine where to place the sprite within the space allocated for the animation. In a fight, you'll (hopefully) see the sprites for each unit shooting at each other. If they are not correctly aligned, you should use the origin parameters to correct that. (No one does, though, so fighters have a tendency to fly past each other )

I'm sorry, I don't fully understand your question about stativ vs animated, but the answer probably is "provided the spr file has the right number of frames, doesn't make a difference"

To change the Stuka you have from L1 to L2, you rename the spr files for the stuka from L-1 to L-2. (Naming convention for sprites seems to be T-Type A-Action C-Country L-Level D-Direction. You should also check the stuka bmp names to see if they won't clash with the HS-123. If they do, a fun session with notepad is to be expected, as you change all 11 sprs of one of them, and rename bmps accordingly... (I'm working on a SPR generator, but it's not ready yet...)

 

[unmerged(18985)]

Gwalcmai - Thanks for taking the time and effort to help. Your reply and further study have cleared up most points.

Just a few follow ups -

Could you please provide a link to the recent thread that discussed which models corespond to which of the four sprites? If it is the one in the next paragraph, where do I get similar info for non-panzer types?

More importantly, can we change these values? The thread here states that they are set up by Paradox and seems to imply that they might not be altered. If they can be changed, can you provide any help on how to do it? In the case of the panzers, I would like to move the PZ III down to L1, and start L2 with the Pz IV with the 75 mm gun.

I would appreciate comments from anyone else who can help answer these two points.

Thanks again to all contributors.

 

[unmerged(18985)]

Since I have mis - titled another thread which contains this question, I have elected to re-post with a better title in addition to replying to the first thread. I apologize if this is a breach of etiquette and will rarely do so in the future.

Could you please provide a link to the recent thread that discussed which of state machine's models correspond to which of the four sprites? If it is the one in the next paragraph, where do I get similar info for non-panzer types?

More importantly, can we change these values? The thread here states that they are set up by Paradox and seems to imply that they might not be altered (in the discussion on fighters). If they can be changed, can you provide any help on how to do it? In the case of the panzers, I would like to move the PZ III down to L1, and start L2 with the Pz IV with the 75 mm gun.

I would appreciate comments from anyone else who can help answer these two points.

Thanks again to all contributors.

 

[SykoNurse]

Originally posted by tsaundry
Since I have mis - titled another thread which contains this question, I have elected to re-post with a better title in addition to replying to the first thread...schnipp

I merged the two threads, keeping the desired title.

 

[Gwalcmai]

Considering the thread was called "level and sprite", I don't see how you could very well miss it, but...

Quoting nachinus:

Tank levels: 4
L1: All light tanks (p.e PzI + II)
L2: All medium tanks (p.e PzIII + IV)
L3: All heavy tanks (p.e Pz V + Tiger)
L4: Superheavy tanks (p.e. Maus, Kingtiger)

Fighter Levels: 3
L1: Prewar fighter (p.e. Gladiator, I-16)
L2: Basic+improved+advanced: (p.e. Me109, Fw190, Hurricane, Spitfire, Mustang...)
L3:Jetfighters

Most everything else is very limited in number of levels. Infantry (all types) and cavalry only have one, I think mot and mech are 1 level also.

Most ships have just one level (BB has two) or at least I've not seen 2nd level used. (And considering the great ship sprites made by sekinoss, I'd think people would have used 2nd level if available)

As for various bombers, there only seems to be one level sprite for them (there is an l-2 tac bomber for GER in Exel's pack, so there's at least that.

As to when each of these kicks in, I think that has to be determined with experiments. (Of course, the ones that have only one level are easy )

 

[unmerged(18985)]

One Final Unresolved Point

Gwalcmai - if you had taken the time to press the hyperlink in my return message, you would have seen that I had located the previous thread and was attempting to confirm it with you.

First, thanks for the info on the restricted number of sprites for most types of units. It completely clears up that point - namely that Paradox does control the number of sprites available for one unit.

However, one point remains which I would like some help on -

Do they also control the state machines model at which the game will switch to a new sprite? Can we change these values ? If they can be changed, can you provide any help on how to do it?

In the case of the panzers, I would like to move the PZ III down to L1, and start L2 with the Pz IV with the 75 mm gun.

As, before any input on this question from other forum members is gratefully appreciated. Also, thanks to SynkoNurse for his merging help.

 

[Gwalcmai]

Heh! Yes, I should have checked the link provided, but I figured it was the right one anyway. I was just being a smartass.

I don't know what triggers the sprite change, maybe it's some level of tech development. (Determining this could actually be quite helpful to modders of the tech tree, so that they can sync the sprite change to some model. OTOH, it could be triggered by activation of model X, for instance (Yes, it is a level of tech too, but means the sprite won't change after you develop "comfy pilot seat" tech. )

However, I have a feeling that this is hardcoded, not moddable. (either that, or it's hidden deep into some file) If so, changing that would require hex editing, skill and luck.

 

[nachinus]

Originally posted by Gwalcmai
However, I have a feeling that this is hardcoded, not moddable. (either that, or it's hidden deep into some file) If so, changing that would require hex editing, skill and luck.

You're right, its harcoded. There's no way we can assign at our pleasure each model to a desired sprite. Several months ago, when the spritemking thing was very active Nighty and other spritemakers proposed in the Wishes and Suggestions forum that there should be more 'levels' for sprites or some user-modificable trigger that could link each model to each sprite, but Paradox thought that this was not important, and the idea was dropped. I understand this decision, because there are a lot of more urgent issues to be resolved with HoI, but certainly its a pity.

Anyway, i think there are lots of very good usermade sprites and most of them fit the model they represent, or at least, the most common model in its class.

 

[unmerged(18985)]

Thanks very much to the all who contributed. You are indeed correct that the point at which the sprite changes doesnot affect game play.

I just really appreciate the effort tht you knowledgeable forum users put into those who do not have as much history with the game.

Thanks again, for resolving all my questions, so that I can get on with modifying sprites if required.