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dj97

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Oct 8, 2014
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Do criminals count as citizens in your city and make up a part of your population? If so, I have a suggestion.

Let's make it so that when a criminal moves into your city, they commit crimes around the area, lowering land value and desirability. If your police system can't handle that criminal, then more criminals will move into that part of the town, increasing crime in that area, and further lowering land value and desirability. Eventually, you'll end up with a crime-ridden area in the city, where only criminals and the law-abiding poor reside. The area will be so bad, even your normal police officers won't patrol there. If the crime rate gets out of hand, then you'll no longer have authority over that area.

The only way to combat the problem is to increase the skill of your police officers. To do so, you must drastically increase the funding to near-military levels. The more skilled the officers are, the more willing they are to patrol that area. Once they are skilled enough, they'll patrol the area and arrest any criminal they see, decreasing the crime rate. Remaining criminals will either change their ways or leave the city. The land value will return, and you'll reclaim your authority.
 
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Planck Constant said:
Interesting, so basically the criminals would form a gang, or would there be no organized crime?
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Gangs would be interesting to see. Several criminals walking together in the same outfits, committing crimes altogether. Maybe it would happen if the crime rat is high enough. Criminals working in a gang hideout would be considered gang members.
 
Threads like this make me realize how incredibly deep we can go with this game. I am sure we won't be able to launch with all the awesome features you guys and gals suggest, but darn, do we have a lot to add post release.

(The capitalist in me drools and thinks DLC heaven ((sidenote: DLC's are not a bad thing, as they help us continue development, also we're going with the PDS model of combining free updates & paid DLC, so no worries)). The dreamer in me thinks of the awesome game we'll be able to make and continue working on.)
 
TotalyMoo said:
Threads like this make me realize how incredibly deep we can go with this game. I am sure we won't be able to launch with all the awesome features you guys and gals suggest, but darn, do we have a lot to add post release.

(The capitalist in me drools and thinks DLC heaven ((sidenote: DLC's are not a bad thing, as they help us continue development, also we're going with the PDS model of combining free updates & paid DLC, so no worries)). The dreamer in me thinks of the awesome game we'll be able to make and continue working on.)
Click to expand...

As long as they are possible to do after release, it's alright! ^_^
 
Ha means there woun't be real gangs or the like, more of a calculus of probabilities related to inside variable game factors, like poverty, police effectivity, cityhall policies, and so on.

Also, if we ever get to drive around in your own car arround the town as some other user posted in the forum, I want the ability to kill my own CiMs included in this "Crime Simulator", just for feature coherence :p
 
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A related question as well is how will the crime factor be simulated and presented in the game?

Meaning when the conditions of a district are condusive to breeding crime (unemployment, low wealth, inadequate policing), will the resulting crime effect be as simple as a "low" to "high" crime factor on a data display, or will there be actual instances of crimes that are logged and then in relation to your city's current population calculate an actual crime rate?

If each cim's movements are simulated, then perhaps when a cim's situation involves certain conditions they turn to crime. Like if their wealth drops to a particular level, they resort to theft or robbery. So when usually in the game they may be simulated going to the shops or to work, they will be simulated going out to rob a store, sell drugs or mug another citizen. Or if a young person's happiness drops to a particular level (boredom for example if a district doesn't have enough recreation) then instead of being simulated going to a park or the movies, they are simulated doing graffiti around the city, stealing a car or buying drugs.

Each time one of these crimes occurs, it is recorded and mapped so you end up having a count of how many each of crime occurred in the calendar year. From this it calculates against the population at year end the crime rate per 100,000 citizens (city wide crime rate and also district crime rates) and you would have year on year crime rates to compare whether crime has increased or decreased as well as mapping crime hot spots at district level so you can target where to focus your police funding or adjust district policies.

I think this would be a great way to simulate a realistic crime effect in the city, and present it the standard way that crime rates are generally measured - annual rate of crimes per 100,000 cims. As a data display, whatever is considered an average crime rate would display as yellow and with below average displaying shades of green and bad crime rates getting darker shades of red... But as a more living visual representation (also related to the suggestions about deterioration of districts) you would actually see graffiti appearing, maybe lots of police activity, police tap around crime scenes, general 'trouble' in the streets and less citizens out and about.
 
TrentW said:
A related question as well is how will the crime factor be simulated and presented in the game?

Meaning when the conditions of a district are condusive to breeding crime (unemployment, low wealth, inadequate policing), will the resulting crime effect be as simple as a "low" to "high" crime factor on a data display, or will there be actual instances of crimes that are logged and then in relation to your city's current population calculate an actual crime rate?

If each cim's movements are simulated, then perhaps when a cim's situation involves certain conditions they turn to crime. Like if their wealth drops to a particular level, they resort to theft or robbery. So when usually in the game they may be simulated going to the shops or to work, they will be simulated going out to rob a store, sell drugs or mug another citizen. Or if a young person's happiness drops to a particular level (boredom for example if a district doesn't have enough recreation) then instead of being simulated going to a park or the movies, they are simulated doing graffiti around the city, stealing a car or buying drugs.

Each time one of these crimes occurs, it is recorded and mapped so you end up having a count of how many each of crime occurred in the calendar year. From this it calculates against the population at year end the crime rate per 100,000 citizens (city wide crime rate and also district crime rates) and you would have year on year crime rates to compare whether crime has increased or decreased as well as mapping crime hot spots at district level so you can target where to focus your police funding or adjust district policies.

I think this would be a great way to simulate a realistic crime effect in the city, and present it the standard way that crime rates are generally measured - annual rate of crimes per 100,000 cims. As a data display, whatever is considered an average crime rate would display as yellow and with below average displaying shades of green and bad crime rates getting darker shades of red... But as a more living visual representation (also related to the suggestions about deterioration of districts) you would actually see graffiti appearing, maybe lots of police activity, police tap around crime scenes, general 'trouble' in the streets and less citizens out and about.
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Great suggestions! ^_^ It allows for a more dynamic reading of your crime rates.
 
Thanks!

It also allows for more targeted ways to fight crime. For example if you have a high rate of theft, burglary & robbery it's likely being created by economic conditions so instead of just pumping money into policing, overcrowding your prisons and feeding a vicious cycle, you could also tackle the long term solution of fixing the district's economic woes and watching the crime rate decrease. Or if a district maybe has high rates of drug activity & vandalism, you could open recreation centres and enforce curfews as a district policy.

I think simply increasing police funding shouldn't magically turn a crime ridden area into pleasantville - in fact in an economically depressed district which you have mismanaged to the point of a crippling crime rate, police blitzing may only make looking at that district even more of an onslaught of sirens, blue & red lights and civic unrest unless you balance the enforcement aspect with also addressing the causes. You won't revitalize a bad area unless you improve the conditions, because those middle class families of cims you want there won't move into an area characterized by sirens and police raids!
 
TrentW said:
A related question as well is how will the crime factor be simulated and presented in the game?

Meaning when the conditions of a district are condusive to breeding crime (unemployment, low wealth, inadequate policing), will the resulting crime effect be as simple as a "low" to "high" crime factor on a data display, or will there be actual instances of crimes that are logged and then in relation to your city's current population calculate an actual crime rate?

If each cim's movements are simulated, then perhaps when a cim's situation involves certain conditions they turn to crime. Like if their wealth drops to a particular level, they resort to theft or robbery. So when usually in the game they may be simulated going to the shops or to work, they will be simulated going out to rob a store, sell drugs or mug another citizen. Or if a young person's happiness drops to a particular level (boredom for example if a district doesn't have enough recreation) then instead of being simulated going to a park or the movies, they are simulated doing graffiti around the city, stealing a car or buying drugs.

Each time one of these crimes occurs, it is recorded and mapped so you end up having a count of how many each of crime occurred in the calendar year. From this it calculates against the population at year end the crime rate per 100,000 citizens (city wide crime rate and also district crime rates) and you would have year on year crime rates to compare whether crime has increased or decreased as well as mapping crime hot spots at district level so you can target where to focus your police funding or adjust district policies.

I think this would be a great way to simulate a realistic crime effect in the city, and present it the standard way that crime rates are generally measured - annual rate of crimes per 100,000 cims. As a data display, whatever is considered an average crime rate would display as yellow and with below average displaying shades of green and bad crime rates getting darker shades of red... But as a more living visual representation (also related to the suggestions about deterioration of districts) you would actually see graffiti appearing, maybe lots of police activity, police tap around crime scenes, general 'trouble' in the streets and less citizens out and about.
Click to expand...

TrentW said:
Thanks!

It also allows for more targeted ways to fight crime. For example if you have a high rate of theft, burglary & robbery it's likely being created by economic conditions so instead of just pumping money into policing, overcrowding your prisons and feeding a vicious cycle, you could also tackle the long term solution of fixing the district's economic woes and watching the crime rate decrease. Or if a district maybe has high rates of drug activity & vandalism, you could open recreation centres and enforce curfews as a district policy.

I think simply increasing police funding shouldn't magically turn a crime ridden area into pleasantville - in fact in an economically depressed district which you have mismanaged to the point of a crippling crime rate, police blitzing may only make looking at that district even more of an onslaught of sirens, blue & red lights and civic unrest unless you balance the enforcement aspect with also addressing the causes. You won't revitalize a bad area unless you improve the conditions, because those middle class families of cims you want there won't move into an area characterized by sirens and police raids!
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GREAT ideas! This is much more realistic and also makes it so that you don't just do the usual adding more police cars or jail cells to your police station, but instead having to fix other problems that are causing the crimes.

And one thing that I thought of, I think that murder should really be caused by the happiness of your cims. In SC2013, murder is just caused when your criminal gets away with enough crimes, but in reality, most murder cases are really caused by arguments or hatred between two couples or friends, they normally aren't criminals, but because they're so mad, they want to kill them, regretting it later. So maybe it can be caused by the happiness of your cims.
 
TotalyMoo said:
Threads like this make me realize how incredibly deep we can go with this game. I am sure we won't be able to launch with all the awesome features you guys and gals suggest, but darn, do we have a lot to add post release.

(The capitalist in me drools and thinks DLC heaven ((sidenote: DLC's are not a bad thing, as they help us continue development, also we're going with the PDS model of combining free updates & paid DLC, so no worries)). The dreamer in me thinks of the awesome game we'll be able to make and continue working on.)
Click to expand...

Completely agree with dlc being a good thing, but expect to see droves of complainers saying it should have been in the base release and was held back content or that it should be added for free(those silly people)
 
dj97 said:
These are all really great ideas! Crime should disappear once your economic problems are solved.
My only question is would it be possible to build a predominantly poor district with a low crime rate?
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I think so! You would probably have to really invest in that district to keep the crime down though so it wouldn't be one of your more 'profitable' districts generating tax revenue or tourism dollars, but if you don't neglect it and spend city dollars keeping it beautified and having enough recreation and good services then you can have a low wealth population who isn't turning to crime, and your poor population has to live somewhere!
 
Well in the vicinity of a station mission, homeless shelter, refugee accommodation the crime is a lot higher then in other neighbourhoods.. Maybe there is a way to implement these buildings with a useful effect of the city development and the less good side effects?
 
lemonsquid said:
Completely agree with dlc being a good thing, but expect to see droves of complainers saying it should have been in the base release and was held back content or that it should be added for free(those silly people)
Click to expand...

We don't really worry about this since all our post-release content will be developed after launch. What people fail to understand is that we need to release a game at some point, and when it comes to most PDX games there's ALWAYS more to add. Just look at the PDS titles, they're crazy that way.

Nevertheless we're going for the PDS model of adding free stuff along with the DLC additions ^_^
 
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