Culture Errors, GC setup

[Cagliostro]

In the basic Grand Campaign setup, there are a few culture errors I've spotted.

1) Natalia has only Dutch culture. However, they have *all* Nguni pops. Certainly it's reasonable for them to have mostly Nguni pops, but there should be *some* sort of Dutch upperclass.

2) Zulu has three cultures: Nguni, Sotho, Zulu. Here's the problem: there are no Zulu pops. Anywhere!

3) Germany is pretty screwy.
a) The North German countries have only North German culture and only North German pops.
b) Saxony has only North German pops, but has both cultures (North first).
c) Anhalt, for some reason, is predominantly South German pops, at a much greater percentage than all neighboring provinces. However, it has only North German culture.
d) The larger South German countries - Bavaria, Wurttemburg, and Baden - have South German pops and South German culture.
e) All the other South German minors have only South German pops, but both cultures (strangely, North listed first), except for the worst problem -
f) Saxe-Meiningen, which has only South German pops, and only North German culture.

4) Awadh has Shiite (?!) religion, and all Sunni pops.

The strange errors you discover, playing minors...

 

[OHgamer]

In the basic Grand Campaign setup, there are a few culture errors I've spotted.

1) Natalia has only Dutch culture. However, they have *all* Nguni pops. Certainly it's reasonable for them to have mostly Nguni pops, but there should be *some* sort of Dutch upperclass.

2) Zulu has three cultures: Nguni, Sotho, Zulu. Here's the problem: there are no Zulu pops. Anywhere!

3) Germany is pretty screwy.
a) The North German countries have only North German culture and only North German pops.
b) Saxony has only North German pops, but has both cultures (North first).
c) Anhalt, for some reason, is predominantly South German pops, at a much greater percentage than all neighboring provinces. However, it has only North German culture.
d) The larger South German countries - Bavaria, Wurttemburg, and Baden - have South German pops and South German culture.
e) All the other South German minors have only South German pops, but both cultures (strangely, North listed first), except for the worst problem -
f) Saxe-Meiningen, which has only South German pops, and only North German culture.

4) Awadh has Shiite (?!) religion, and all Sunni pops.

The strange errors you discover, playing minors...

Well, the beta process at the time the game was being produced tended to focus on the majors since that is what the vast majority of players play. And especially regarding non-Western minors, not that many betas (or players in general) will have the background to catch errors.

(since joining the beta process in Jul 05 I've tried to correct those I come across, but with so much having changed in the basic game structure and making sure that works well, there are ample opportunities for small, relatively inconsequential errors like these to get through).

Will take a look at these regarding Germany, however a couple I can comment on

1 - Natal had a Dutch ruling elite, however the size of that elite was less than 2000 people as late as 1840 so it is impossible to put the Dutch pop in. It was however not an African state ruled by Africans and in fact the same sort of proto-apartheid system that governed race structures in Transvaal and Oranje governed there, so putting an African culture as national culture would be wrong. Though in the end Natal does not even become a separate state until 1839, but it was felt that the nation should not be removed from the GC of base Victoria since it had "always been there." So the best solution to illustrate Natal for base Victoria is to have it be Dutch national culture even without Dutch POPs.

2 - The general rule of the patching process is not to add POPs to fix minor population correction problems, that is something that is best left to the modding community. The existence of Zulu as a state culture even without the POPs is nothing more than a cosmetic issue in terms of game performance, since the cultures that are present in Zulu are also state cultures for the Zulu state.

4 - While the majority of the Muslim Awadhi population was Sunni, the ruling dynasty in Awadh was Shi'ite, and this was corrected. However, this is more a cosmetic issue again since religion plays almost no role whatsoever in the game. but it does correct an error in terms of the official state religion, even if it was not the religion of the masses (which was actually Hinduism, not Islam, but again corrections to POPs that do not directly affect gameplay are not undertaken in the beta process but left to the modding community).

 

[Cagliostro]

Thanks for answering my questions.

So the best solution to illustrate Natal for base Victoria is to have it be Dutch national culture even without Dutch POPs.

Only problem with this is it makes Natalia borderline unplayable - you can't promote any pops at all! While it may have been a small elite, I doubt they had the problem of being unable to change people's employment. As a democracy with all parties allowed, they can't even force a ruling party change.

2 - The general rule of the patching process is not to add POPs to fix minor population correction problems, that is something that is best left to the modding community. The existence of Zulu as a state culture even without the POPs is nothing more than a cosmetic issue in terms of game performance, since the cultures that are present in Zulu are also state cultures for the Zulu state.

I was just thinking the "Zulu" line should be removed, actually, as it's irrelevant and confusing - are you suggesting that an "accurate" fix would be to add Zulu pops?

4 - While the majority of the Muslim Awadhi population was Sunni, the ruling dynasty in Awadh was Shi'ite, and this was corrected. However, this is more a cosmetic issue again since religion plays almost no role whatsoever in the game. but it does correct an error in terms of the official state religion, even if it was not the religion of the masses (which was actually Hinduism, not Islam, but again corrections to POPs that do not directly affect gameplay are not undertaken in the beta process but left to the modding community).

Had no idea there were Shi'ites there; thought it was simply an error. Thanks for the info!

 

[OHgamer]

Thanks for answering my questions.



Only problem with this is it makes Natalia borderline unplayable - you can't promote any pops at all! While it may have been a small elite, I doubt they had the problem of being unable to change people's employment. As a democracy with all parties allowed, they can't even force a ruling party change.

simple solution would be to add small Dutch pops to the state, and that can be modded in by players easily if so desired.

I was just thinking the "Zulu" line should be removed, actually, as it's irrelevant and confusing - are you suggesting that an "accurate" fix would be to add Zulu pops?

Yes, and the VIp mod does just that. Even if you don't want to use their whole mod, you could download it to desktop and copy over the pop files for Zululand that VIP (and in this case, myself) developed.

 

[mib]

Natal had a Dutch ruling elite, however the size of that elite was less than 2000 people as late as 1840

How do they put down rebellions???!!!

 

[jdrou]

How do they put down rebellions???!!!

I guess the majority didn't dislike them enough to rebell.

Another culture issue that has been mentioned before: are there supposed to be both Mongol and Mongolian cultures? Mongolian only exists in Fengtian province. This has a (minor) game effect since Mongol is a national culture for China while Mongolian is not.