Danzig, Poland and Teutonic Order

[unmerged(6926)]

In 1308 Teutonic Order gained Danzig from Poland. In 1456 Danzig and many others cities revolted against TO and asked to be incorporated to Poland. Polish king agreed (no surprise) but it took 13 years of war with TO (no surprise) to settle this in peace agreement.

There is no doubt about it - only pure facts; no place to "but", "maybe" or "hoveever".

So I'm little confused playing EEP_GC and looking at Danzig belonging to Poland in 1419. What's behind?

P.S. I'm playing 1.02 PL with EEP. And I'm Pole

 

[Demetrios]

I already brought this up in the beta forum. Hopefully it will be fixed soon.

I think the orignal reasoning was that since it had a CoT, it was too valuable for Poland to lose. In 1.03, it no longer has that CoT, so there is no reason not to give it to Prussia/TO in 1419...

 

[pithorr]

Originally posted by Demetrios
I already brought this up in the beta forum. Hopefully it will be fixed soon.

I think the orignal reasoning was that since it had a CoT, it was too valuable for Poland to lose. In 1.03, it no longer has that CoT, so there is no reason not to give it to Prussia/TO in 1419...

No CoT in Danzig - bad surprise. There shuold be rather removed one in Courland...
I've read Danzig was given Poland to improve its performance in the first years of the game. There is better, historical solution: Danzig in TO hands, no doubt, Poland has CB because of the above, Poland in latin technology group until the Union with Lithuania occurs which event could change it into orthodox one (as it happened really - that union "easternized" Polish ).

 

[unmerged(6881)]

Yes, Danzig was much more important than Riga. Removing Danzig CoT to create more historical borders in 1419 is not an option as P-L is badly weakened by this and other events like lack of lithuanian, baltic and ruthenian cultures, lack latin techgroup and so on.

 

[AlanC9]

Is Poland-Lithuania that weak without Danzig? In my experience they crush the Knights pretty quickly. I've never seen the Knights and Prussia last past 1520 in a 1419 game.

If anything, the Teutonic Knights should be strengthened, so that they (and Prussia) can last into the mid-1500s.

 

[unmerged(5206)]

Try the EGC in order to test Poland without Danzig. Poland and Lithuania have a realtively easy time ripping apart a 3 province Prussia and a 4 province TO. Lithuania usually gets Memel, Polotsk and Estonia while usually Poland gets Danzig, Prussia, and Courland. Poland really doesn't seem to suffer much.

 

[AlanC9]

Fate, do you have any plans to make the Order and Prussia more viable in the EGC?

 

[unmerged(5206)]

What exactly do you mean by more viable? So they're more playable?

 

[dralizaar]

im thinking of trying alteraation of giving prussia west prussia and danzig, polotsk goes to lithuania...i reanme prussia to and to to inflants/sword brothers...also moving cot from kourland to danzig and removing to/sword brothers from their alliance with the hanseatic states...and making inflants vassal to to...need to work on the event for duchy of prussia and have to become prussia if the event occurs type of thing...

histyorically only reason to survived and prussia survived as long as they did was polotics not military...poland had already beaten them into the dust over and over after 1410..so making them stronger doesnt make any sense..if a polish king wants to press the issue theres no reason why it shouldnt be a relative cakewalk

 

[AlanC9]

Fate, I don't mean that the T.O. and Ducal Prussia should be made playable . I think they're playable now

I mean that they should be able to occasionally survive under AI control; at least until the "Fate of the Teutonic Order" event happens.

dralizaar; yeah, the Poles could have wiped them out. But they didn't. We should make this happen at least occasionally in the game (or why bother fixing the Prussia events - there isn't going to be any Prussia by the time they come around.) Maybe we just need to twak the Polish AI, diplo relations, and CB shields.?

Who were the Sword Brothers, anyway? I've never heard that name before now.

 

[dralizaar]

the sword brothers were another knight order that was in the baltics before the tuetonic knights came under invite from the local polish duke who need their help agaisnt the pagans in prussia...after TO pretty much wiped the prussians out they moved east along the coast and annexed /absorbed the Sword Brothers <Brotherhood of the Sword> and a danish colony in Livonia/Estonia..they remained an order under TO control <retaining much of theire identity but acting more as total vassals to the TO...when TO power began to fall under polish attacks they later reasserted their independance...which later made russia think they'd be easy pickings...so russia attacked them and they called on poland for help..sicne after TO control broke they had rushed to improved relations with poland/lithuania <ie they were more or less allied>...

after Polish forces destroyed the russians under Ivan the terrible at the battle of Pskov the russians lost much ground..and the Inflants <as the region under the sword brothers was called> opted to join poland in a union similar to that Lithuania had done...only this union proceeded quickly and became full anexation willingly by the inhabitants..there were zero revolts over this and the people were quite content...during the war between poland and sweden ...sweden grabbed a portion of these lands...this is why poland should have its cbs in the region and the culture as these people were quite content to join and lvie udner polish rule and di so well for as long as they were part of it...one can also reconsider addign the danish cb on livonia for their colony that TO took early on..although i dont think Denmark really cared much at the time..when the swedes came the people again were quite content..

it wasnt till the russians aquired the region that they began to rev0tl in earnest and production fall...and there were also many revolts agaisnt the TO while they were still the nominal masters <this was true in all TO lands which was one of the big reasons Poland had such easy time in later wars agaisnt them...in truth none of these lands should even bear TO cb shields..and TO culture should be pure german as they attempted to recruit only german knights and import german serfs to their lands..they used much slave labor <captured poles lithuanians and pagans and very low portion of the local pops other than the main cities were actually german..most of these slaves revolted as did many of the imported germans