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DEG-HoI game nr 3

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DEG-HoI game number 3 has now started, with the following setup:

Scenario: 1936 / normal / normal

Players: 7 (4 vs 3)

Nations played:
UK: Tuuttu
Canada: Tomar
USA: Aldo
USSR: Juv
Germany: Glenn
Italy: MadViking
Japan: Jan

This game uses the following rules:
1) No nukes
2) No paras
3) No tech share to human nations EVER. Not allowed to give Applied tech (aka "Gold tech") to AI nations EVER.
4) No invasions from neutral countries (not allowed to launch air attacks from neutrals either, but it is OK to refuel ships/air units here though)
5) No supplies or resources can be sent to ANY country unless BOTH of you are at war. Exceptions to this rule: USA may send resources/supplies to USSR after they are at war with Germany
6) You are only allowed to DOW a country if you are going to invade them (so no Italian DOW on Denmark on Germans behalf, and DOW on small Central American countries that you do not plan to invade just to get the -CG demands)
7) Historical choices: Historical Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, USSR can't join Allies or Axis, Japan must change government to Paternal Autocrat, USA is NOT allowed to go Stalinist, no invasions of South America.
8) Stacking limitations: none (feel free to stack your navy and airforce any way you want)
9) Any general exploits are not allowed, includes: sending your entire navy as expeditionary force to Venezuela just to save supplies, upgrading infrastructure in territory you are about to loose (so enemy gets less IC and cant make AA/forts), and other similar things.


Personal comments:
I personally consider invading another country with the use of neutral ships as a variant of rule 4 listed above (neutral country sends another country a land unit as exp force, but keeps the ships under their own flag). How could this be considered any different from invading directly from a neutral country? Do you think that the defending country's fleet would just stand by and watch as a "neutral" country unloads an expeditionary force, or do you think they would sink those ships?
 
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Originally posted by MadViking
3) No tech share to human nations EVER. Not allowed to give Applied tech (aka "Gold tech") to AI nations EVER.
5) No supplies or resources can be sent to ANY country unless BOTH of you are at war (the only exception to this rule that I think should be allowed is USA convoys to USSR, but only after Germany DOWs USSR)
10) Any general exploits are not allowed, includes: sending your entire navy as expeditionary force to Venezuela just to save supplies, upgrading infrastructure in territory you are about to loose (so enemy gets less IC and cant make AA/forts), and other similar things.
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House rules 3 and 5 should not apply to UK/Canada/Australia/NZ/South Africa - they already have a huge handicap by being economically and technologically fragmented. And historically, the Empire was quite well integrated at this time (Imperial Preference trade policy, for example).

The infrastructure exploit seems reasonable as approximating the scorched earth tactic (which was used by USSR). It would have the effect of slowing German industrial expansion and that would help the game go at a slower, more historical pace.

Saturday afternoon (July 12) is feasible for me but not Friday (already too late).

Andrew
 
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Andrew do have a few points here. But an exploit that we forgot to name are the "coup and dow thingie" to avoid raised Allied WE.

If anyone coups a nation should that be to get more friendly with that nation (to get it into your own alliance) or to avoid that the nation joins another alliance. No exceptions.

And Mad why did you write down these rules and said you wanted it semi-historical? You were the first to break them and go turboannexing.

Italy annexing Nationalistic Spain isn't centi- or even nano-historical. :D

Greece and Yugoslavia sound semi-historical to me (although maybe not in 36). And also Rumania because Germany forced them into the Axis right? But not Bulgaria and Hungary and certainly not nationalistic Spain!

My complements to glenn though as he kept it all fair and square.

Japan: no comments ;)

Its all seems very promising though and I am looking forward to next session.
 
Nice game guys!

jan 1936- oct 1939

USSR had a major worker strike for +3% dissent and the mass combat minister Shaposhnikov got snubby twice but was pardoned both times due to his usufulness in building a large anad strong red army costing another +2% dissent. He was elimintaed as a leader in the Purges but still acts as minister. Turkey was lent the USSR air force and soon confiscated most of it. Never try that at home kids. A large contingent of Russian troops were sent into Turkey to counter Italian aggression here. The Turkish AI did nothing else but order random movements of the expeditionary forces, either suicidal attacks over river into mountains at 1 to 2 odds in winter or retreats to the Turkish Russian border. Still a massive 48 division assault with German military observers involved was repulsed in Central Turkey maintaining the line. Later the Turkish AI started to behave very weird. First it became impossible to send further exp forces. Is there an upper limit? Then they disbanded or strat deployed some USSR forces. All this bugginess together made the Russian leaderships decide to eliminiate the suicidal AI. Troops were marched against the Russian border to launch a righteous invasion of Turkey to gain a safety area against Italy. The AI cancelled every such move and when withdrawn from foreign service the troops couldnt move at all. Military access was denied. Finally war was declared and Russian forces occupied some mountainous terrain in north eastern Turkey. The rest of the land fell to Italy. Again Russia had troops in some of the provinces that Italy claimed but the game seemed to disregard this.

In all it seems like the Russian losses in buggy Turkey are in line with the one sustained during the Italian crusade in buggy Spain where Italy lost 9 divisions and its entire airforce due to a bug. Call it quits?

Regarding "gameyness" and houserules. I suggest we play with the house rules we have and make new ones to the next campaign if we feel like it. One person's smart strategy is another person's gamey move. If its not forbidden and you can do it in game its ok in my opinion. DoWing a state with forces inside it sent as exp forces is admittedly gamey. Still I tried to avoid it but its was not to be and also the house rules dont forbid it ie. its is ok.

I wont comment on remaining at war after total occupation of a state, couping and DoWing, landing from neutral ships with exp forces etc, etc. No house rules against = allowed. Just be glad we banned nukes or Rome would lay in ashes by now!

Btw I agree with Andrews comments regarding some of the house rules. ie commonwealth tech sharing and scorched earth poilicies.
 
(UK) Where the sun never sets

Grand stategy;

1) Defend every inch of gorund make them pay with their facist blood, hold on to India with coastal and land fortifications.

2)Defend Northafrica, keep that suez channel to avoid italian expansion in Asia, Southafrica

3)Defend Gibraltar, a must!!

4)Keep an eye on the Italian and Japaneese Fleet projects, be prepared to counter tec or build to match them.

5)Get RAF ready for "joint allied invasions" and strafe missions in Africa and India.


Well as usally Italia put Europe into flames, by taking most of the Balkans and Nationalist Spain, but their expansion was halted in Turkey by ehavy exp. forces from USSR, Canada and UK. They managed to get an standoff in turkey, and thereby halting any futher italian expansion into middleeast and Northafrica.

Germany hit Netherland late 39 since Belgium joined the allies a year earlier, as always the war in france was a BIG SHAME, and they soon caved in. But both Japan and Italy are still neutral, reason?? Probably not ready for war yet, Italy dosnt have the protecting they need in teh meddeterianian, because of the open border in turkey. Japan, actually i dont now, their fleet is uppgrading I guess all hell will brake loose when its ready.

Well we are just waiting for that american dreamer to come with an dessive blow.....or atleast a couple of hundred DD:s.
 
Originally posted by juv95hrn
Regarding "gameyness" and houserules. I suggest we play with the house rules we have and make new ones to the next campaign if we feel like it. One person's smart strategy is another person's gamey move. If its not forbidden and you can do it in game its ok in my opinion.
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MadViking asked me if I agreed to the rules he stated above. I did. Then I only commented he was the was first to break them. I think it is a interesting behaivour.

Gamey is gamey and historical is historical. Smart is nice to be but has nothing to do with the sooner.

I didn't intend to make a thing out of it but I will keep this in mind and try to make every thing crystal before next game. Its good that everyone have the same expectations and perspective on the game before start. Right?

EDIT: Regarding rules; I was as I said only asked about the rules stated in this forum. I was never involved in any other discussion in this matter as I had already agreed with Mad and juv about the rules. I noticed that the rules was repeated ingame but they seemed very similar to those here so I assumed they were the same.

If they were not the same I think its all a very confusing approach and maybe Mad should edit the first post in this thread to actually say what was agreed on (or rather what rules are to follow).

Honestly I only thought you told the Norwegians about the rules from this thread, not changed them.

This problem has a simple solution. Only discuss rules in the forum, but properly before game starts. Not with the tiny fragments of text possible in the game lobby or ingame. ;) And state them, as you did Mad, in the forum and then stick to them.

Now lets continue this game in the good spirit it has had so far.
 
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MadViking asked me if I agreed to the rules he stated above. I did. Then I only commented he was the was first to break them
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As far as I know I did not break any of the rules. What do you mean?

The 7) above was agreed upon before game start that it would not be used.
 
Yes, the "must annex/puppet when possible" rule was suggested by myself, since I quite often see things such as early German DOW on Lithuania (which they never annex) and Italians never annexing Albania etc. However, it was agreed upon before the game started that this rule NOT be used.

Remember that if you are at war, your world trade deals will give you around 25% (or less) of what they normally give during peace, so there is a considerable draw-back to the few gained IC that you save from decreased CG demand. As Italy in a constant war from the start of the game (and with worthless conversion tech), I was almost out of coal at several times (converting it to rubber at a rather useless ratio), which was the main reason why I attacked and annexed Romania (instead of making them Axis).

Aslo, this thread was created for a game that was intended to start on Saturday 12 July (that never started...), a 1939 scenario with different people (Juv, Aldo, me and 3 others that do not participate in our current game). The game we are currently playing just happened by chance, since Juv, Aldo and myself were online at the same time on Friday evening, and I was asked by somebody (I forgot who, but think it was one of the Norwegians) if I wanted to play, and we eventuall got 4 other players, for a toal of 7. This thread was basically hijacked by that game :)

Anyway, I agree with everybody that there should be as few and as simple house rules as possible, but after having seen all manner and kinds of exploits and rotten tricks in previous games (none by our current players though), I think it's best to declare these things before hand. The house rules were discussed on Val-net before the game started, however it seems as if the changed rule was not properly conveyed to everybody, which is totally my fault.

I have now edited the above listed rules and settings, please mention if these are different from what we agreed upon before the game.
 
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Next game is on Sunday 13 July at 12:00 CET.
 
Well still an empire

UK Part II;

Well all hell did brake loose just after we started as allways, Italian navy moved out true gibraltar and with over 100 subs their were an big treath to the Royal navy that had to retreat to safer waters......and sea löve followed just rigth after italian and german fleets joined outside coventry.

German tanks blow an hole in UK defence lines an pushed into uk home soil, at the same time Italian troops cowardly attacked Egypt and Middle east.

Japan saw an opportunity and dow:ed, never trust thoose who you supported during WWI...they all backstab you.

Well the empire strated to fall like an puzzle droped onto the floor, these was the darkest hour in our history.

But in early 40, General Alexander rallied his troops and succeded in trowhing the germans out of the queens glory soil, with heavy looses. TheEmpire seemed to be saved for the moment, but in Africa, Middleeast and FarAsia land was fallen into enemy hands every single day.

With the great news from home troops found new strength and started to repell the Japaneese attacks against India, but the empire had to sacrifice Northafrica and N.zeeland.

Still no help from our American friends, we stan all aloone on the battlefield against the evil forces of AXIS, but we stand, and we will stand, forever
 
Sea Love

We all know England couldve been my slave if i wanted to...
I left the stinking Island out of free will, because of the ugly looking Scotish girls...Cutting England in half made it clear we could have a USA war if we wanted...we considered it, but im such a dull bore (longing for that russian front). Hows the Royal Navy these days;)

Russia....im coming for you

America....looking forward to killing you softly

UK....how can i even blitz England when theres no planes there?
 
New professions

I guess I have to go visit that stinking island with those ugly girls some day. My lads are not going to be happy about it but thats the way it gotta be. I am comforting them with that they will soon be able to meet the pretty gals of continental Europe.

Btw. I am no longer only a spy and a scientist. I am also a manufacturer, manufactoring things that can kill you quickly.
 
Italian progress September 1939 - September 1940:

The grand task appointed to the Italians by our trusty ally in Berlin was undertaken. 100 of our latest subs were put to sea, setting sail for the UK mainland. Once there, we tricked the Royal Navy into a full scale sea battle, involving over 200 ships total. As planned, our forces scored a great victory, sinking most of the Royal Navy, as well as the floating bolshevik garbage lent to them by Stalin.

After the succesfull sea campaign, our forces initiated unlimited submarine warefare, sinking UK convoy ships at rates up to 100 per week.

A simultaneous land invasion was launched against Syria, Iraq and Egypt, where we eliminated around 20 UK divisions and 10 Iraqi divisions. Our forces continued into Africa with ease, reaching the Congo and eliminating an additional 10 units from UK and Australia.

Small amphibious raiding forces were sent against the lesser UK colonies, including Aden and Oman.

A Canadian raiding force was also eliminated in Marocco.

The ultimate victory was however won in Gibraltar, were almost 500,000 Italian infantrymen fought a long and bloody battle, and succesfully stormed the heavily fortified province, killing or capturing 15 divisions of the UK and France.

In all, the year was a great victory for Italy, eliminating over 50 enemy divisions and sinking over 100 fleet ships and an estimated 1000 convoy ships, without the loss of a single Italian ship or division.

You may now clap your hands and bow.

Btw. I am no longer only a spy and a scientist. I am also a manufacturer, manufactoring things that can kill you quickly.
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Much talk, little action. Feel free to send any of your stinking ships across the Atlantic, my subs realy like some extra target practice. Looking forward to sinking your fleet as well.
 
Next game: Thursday 17 July at 18:00 CET. Please post here if you can not make it, or if you will be late.
 
Actually this is the most interresting MP so far....

Germans and Russians awaiting the Barb - USA waiting to join...
Italy and Japan fighting UK all over the globe.
2 things has changed the situation for the allies atm: loss of the Gib and not having sea supremacy atm (UK has supreme air superiority in India). Time could change the second of those factors....We will have to see, meanwhile the russian will have to bear the brunt alone.

Next MP i hope you join Redawn...then we can find out how long you last. Gather a crew - chose sides - chose rules (as long as they are within reasonable terms) and fight (just dont cry uncle if you lose (you will)).

Glennster
 
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