Dissent & Partisans; Garrisons & Collaborators

[dsteve3]

I don't have a great grasp of all the historic details, so please bear with me.

I would like to see the partisan and dissent systems enhanced in HoI3, while symotaneously remaining as "unit-free" as possible.

With the new system of diplomacy and laws, I suspect that these systems could be revamped without creating alot of new interfaces.

Dissent is ever-present, even in totalitarian societies. Dissent never reachs "zero", but there are thresholds. Its one thing to have the people get upset over some misfortune, but something entirely different when a government has to make sudden and intrusive changes.

As well, dissent isn't always a bad-thing. Adept politicians can use dissent to make radical changes; its all about optics and spin. I feel there should be consequences for sudden and thoughtless moves by the player, and dissent could be a mechanism.

(Partisans con't)

 

[dsteve3]

Partisans:

Is not partisan activity a reflection of dissent of non-accepted cultures (to borrow the EU concept)? Some political decisions will reduce dissent amongst one population, while causing it to rise with another.

Partisans can be serious business. They shouldn't just go away; if they are ignored, there should be serious consequences.

In HoI2, dealing with partisans is relatively simplistic. Annex the state, staturate the provinces with garrisons+MPs, and wait out the "red".

I can't help but feel that its just a little too simplistic. I don't want to be innundated with "rebels" (like playing the older EU versions - still have nightmares...) Instead, there should be laws that allow dissent to be 'shifted' from one populous to another. Take away from the ones that are "happy" and give to the ones that aren't.

As well, maybe some diplomatic options could be explored. Doesn't have to be historically-explicit, just some generalised references to "people from the region" who may wish to assist you with quelling dissent. Maybe if a region can't be caudled into complacency, then a small puppet state should be created to shift the focus or concentrate political power (like Kuwait was to Iraq for Britain in the early days).

Overall, I'm looking for flavour with a bit of challenge, but LESS units. Instead, lets talk about the kinds of phenomenon we can expect to encounter without getting into the ugly nature of inter-ethnic struggles.

 

[griswolds686]

So many worthless threads and we still have at least 6 months left!

 

[PIT_AMERO]

Sounds interesting, but I can't understand how you can "get" the dissent from one region and to "give" it to another?

 

[Minchandre]

While your ideas are interesting, I'm not certain an EU-like culture system is necessarily appropriate here. EU uses culture so much because in that time frame nationalism was non-existent, and so it was religious and cultural ties more than anything else that determined whether peasants and burghers tolerated the government. By HOI, however, nationalism's already been around for a while, and people don'' think of themselves as Flemish so much as Belgian (okay, bad example given current events, but the point remains).

If anything, it should be government and ideology that plays a role: citizens of a liberal democracy probably won't mind so much being conquered by another liberal democracy, but will organize a large resistance to a totalitarian dictatorship.

 

[dsteve3]

Dissent can be transferred between communities by backing an issue favoured by the dissenting peoples, but which may not be popular with others.

We wouldn't even need to have "specifics", just generalizations.

Dissent of people in the "Abc" region reaches a certain threshold; you now have an option to enact a law which people in that locality hold important (don't even bother to specify - the point is to be seen favouring those people).

Since it is an option that favours a special group, everyone else gets a little more upset.

This sort of thing happens all the time. Politicians use 'optics' and 'spin' to disguise favortism as policy. Its how they harness political support.

You wouldn't want to specify communities or ethnicities either, as that goes against the rules of this game (not about "ethnic cleansing").

Just a way to keep dissent and partisanship from being so linear. It should surge, rise and slowly dissipate. Not just a linear scale of "high dissent at first, 2% later".

 

[unmerged(41649)]

Somehow I think that Abc people wouldn't last too long in Fascist Germany or Communist Soviet Union.

The only biggie that I see missing from HOI2 is the hard bottom limit on dissent. It should become logarithmically harder to reduce dissent at extremely low levels with 0% being impossible. And the penalties for very low dissent should be near negligible. It is not until you get close to double digits that it starts to have an effect. In HOI2 it was always that you wanted to get dissent to 0, and then keep it there forever.

 

[unmerged(47937)]

While your ideas are interesting, I'm not certain an EU-like culture system is necessarily appropriate here. EU uses culture so much because in that time frame nationalism was non-existent, and so it was religious and cultural ties more than anything else that determined whether peasants and burghers tolerated the government. By HOI, however, nationalism's already been around for a while, and people don'' think of themselves as Flemish so much as Belgian (okay, bad example given current events, but the point remains).

If anything, it should be government and ideology that plays a role: citizens of a liberal democracy probably won't mind so much being conquered by another liberal democracy, but will organize a large resistance to a totalitarian dictatorship.

Very bad example at the moment... I'm from flanders, went to wallonia today and it almost feels like another country...

Edit: Sorry for hijacking the topic... but please continue

 

[unmerged(52507)]

Somehow I think that Abc people wouldn't last too long in Fascist Germany or Communist Soviet Union.

The only biggie that I see missing from HOI2 is the hard bottom limit on dissent. It should become logarithmically harder to reduce dissent at extremely low levels with 0% being impossible. And the penalties for very low dissent should be near negligible. It is not until you get close to double digits that it starts to have an effect. In HOI2 it was always that you wanted to get dissent to 0, and then keep it there forever.

Yes low dissent should make little impact, and if you lose the plot and hit 12% it should hurt .

 

[unmerged(72564)]

I wouldn't mind more options for handling dissent. The old system was 2 dimensional. Partisans should have excellent resistance to air attack. Maybe an ability to escape detection for a time.
Political tools for addressing insurrections should be a must. How often are the solutions to uprisings military?o

 

[unmerged(71032)]

I wouldn't mind more options for handling dissent. The old system was 2 dimensional. Partisans should have excellent resistance to air attack. Maybe an ability to escape detection for a time.
Political tools for addressing insurrections should be a must. How often are the solutions to uprisings military?o

During the WWII?

100% of the solutions were military one. Or para-military (as using armed police forces, redeploying or ethnically cleansing local populations and such). Not something that will ever make into HoI game.

 

[King]

During the WWII?

100% of the solutions were military one. Or para-military (as using armed police forces, redeploying or ethnically cleansing local populations and such). Not something that will ever make into HoI game.

Read this http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=371034 and do not post crap like this again. These rules are not there to be bent, these are subjects that are not be discussed, even to not discuss them.