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Crookback

Revenant
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Jan 9, 2005
8.908
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  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
Okay, is the idea of the various British Imperial dominions being independent set in stone now? It's just that personally, I am of the opinion that in 1914 - as opposed to say, 1936 - the British Empire should be a single, unified state (in our mod's terms, anyway). There are several reasons I hold this view:

Firstly, in gameplay terms it means that along with Russia - and arguably the United States, once mobilised - the British Empire is the most expansive and micromanage-intensive country to play as. It requires the player to sufficiently garrison and defend the various outposts of the Empire, which in turn requires a far more realistic and resourceful use of the Royal Navy. This is a large, important and fun aspect of playing as the British Empire, and I truly hope it remains so. With the proposed advent of separate dominions, each one having its own navy (however small) significantly detracts from the Royal Navy's responsibility/need to maintain sufficient fleets in various parts of the globe. This means that a larger chunk of the navy may be used to bottle the High Seas Fleet in the Baltic - this is ahistorical, as although the Grand Fleet did indeed do so, many other smaller fleets were needed to protect British interests around the world.

Secondly, I am of the opinion that the Statute of Westminster (1931) is the true date of independence and realistic self-governance for the larger dominions. Dates before this are both spurious and wishy-washy, and although varying levels of self-governance are mentioned on several dates after 1900, the Imperial War Cabinet in London still (AFAIK) controlled both colonial foreign policy and the Empire's various armed forces. I honestly don't believe there is reason enough to break up the empire before 1931 - after the Statute, however, I am completely for this process. It is, of course, outside of the mod's timespan. Another point of argument could be the Balfour Declaration, but this too is further on in history, in this case 1926:

Balfour Declaration said:
"They are autonomous Communities within the British Empire, equal in status, in no way subordinate one to another in any aspect of their domestic or external affairs, though united by a common allegiance to the Crown, and freely associated as members of the British Commonwealth of Nations."

Thirdly, I do agree with maintaining the dominions as revolters in the mod database. By doing so, the player may grant independence as and when he pleases (should he wish to do so, for whatever reason); and of course should the Central Powers win the Great War, all of these dominions would be released.

Finally, I think that Drew probably had most of this in mind when he set this up originally. :)

Just my opinion, please comment.
 
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Dates before this are both spurious and wishy-washy, and although varying levels of self-governance are mentioned on several dates after 1900, the Imperial War Cabinet in London still (AFAIK) controlled both colonial foreign policy and the Empire's various armed forces.

And that's why we made the puppet states. They have full control inside their borders, but they foreign policy is lead by London.

And be sure we find a way to give extensive military control to Great Britain.
 
So what can they actually do?

Also, their heads of state should be the same as the UK; their head of government of course being their respective prime minister. I don't really see the point in using colonial governors when we can just use the actual monarch. They only represented the monarch anyway.

I'm not really convinced by all this, though. Realistically, what can these puppets actually do?
 
Why not make this optional?

When game or Great War starts, UK will get event to decide will he play as whole Empire or release Canada, Australia etc. as puppets to help him. AI_CHANCE would be 100 for not to release, while human player can decide himself.
 
Lord Finnish said:
Why not make this optional?

When game or Great War starts, UK will get event to decide will he play as whole Empire or release Canada, Australia etc. as puppets to help him. AI_CHANCE would be 100 for not to release, while human player can decide himself.
releasing a bunch of countries at same time can make the game crash
 
Jarno said:
releasing a bunch of countries at same time can make the game crash

I have released all soviet republics in one event with New Nations mod and it only freezed for couple of seconds.
 
Better yet, what about an option in the actual game menu, like in EU2 where you can have (for example) kingdom of Germany on/off, or alternate Iberia on/off, &c.?

Can that be done in HoI2?

I do think we need some sort of option here, though. I am fairly convinced that the dominions shouldn't be independent 'till 1931, and on the other hand I don't really see the point of having so many large nations as puppets. If we're just talking Iraq or a Palestinian mandate then fair enough, but the entire Commonwealth?

If HoI2 allows an EU2-style setup choice, then go with that, but as far as I'm concerned the default option should be the full British Empire, at least until 1926. However, this is of course a communal project so I appreciate all opinions, but I just don't see the evidence to support doing what is currently in 0.43.
 
Lord Finnish said:
Why not make this optional?

When game or Great War starts, UK will get event to decide will he play as whole Empire or release Canada, Australia etc. as puppets to help him. AI_CHANCE would be 100 for not to release, while human player can decide himself.
Oh, and assuming my previously posted idea isn't doable, your idea here could work - though I suggest we do it one nation at a time, instead of talking about the Commonwealth as a collective. Basically, just heavily edit the Indian independence event, cater it for Canada, Australia, Newfoundland, South Africa, New Zealand, Rhodesia, &c. and have it fire at random intervals for ENG. Option A would be no, say 90% or 95%, and B yes, which obviously releases the country in question.

I certainly don't think it should be 100% for A because it's nice to see the AI go with the 5% option every now and then. Besides, the chances of them releasing all of the dominions (at 5% each) is extremely slim indeed.