Law and Order: Antiquity Criminal Unit
As discussed in Hardradi's Epigoni Mod, this is my first foray into event modding. So be patient with me, I am still learning how to create events.
What's the problem
As in vanilla Rome, taking judicial actions against a character (Imprison, Banish, Execute) gives Tyranny to the player. Tyranny takes a long while to decrease, which leads to a continuous loss of loyalty and revolt risk increases that can last for years if, of course, no more characters are imprisoned, banished, or executed. All of that for taking justice to a single character, right or wrong.
While I can see why PI did it that way, I find that situation inane, for two reasons.
A) Imprisoning a character is not a tyrannical act per say, and the current way it is programmed does not distinguish in anyway between innocent victims of reprisals and real, dangerous apprehended suspects of conspiracy or treason. Whether the character is an angel or a slime, the Tyranny increase is still the same.
B) Even in moderate regimes, Consuls and Monarchs had a lot of power in their hands. Imprisoning people suspected to be conspiring against a leader or the state was seen as a reasonable option to, well, having them murdered or killed by the mob. There was no such thing as "presumption of innocence" in Ancient Rome or Macedonia. It was to you or your friends to demonstrate that the accusations were untrue, if of course the trial was fair.
My little mod project aims to correct these and give players a way of getting opponents and bad apples using the due process of law while both decreasing the consequences in Tyranny.
What's the objective
The objective is to create an set of events allowing "moderate" regimes (republics and monarchies alike) to bring characters into trial, which might lead to judicial punishment.
The charges that could be brought in the first version are
- Trial for theft
- Trial for libel
- Trial for embezzlement
- Trial for adultery
- Trial for assault
- Trial for treason/conspiracy
The punishment that could be available are, depending of the charges brought up, some of them good, some of them plain bad, are:
- Fines
- Bodily harm (branding, blinded, etc)
- Property confiscation
- Banishment
- Execution
- Family proscription
For those who might think that would give the monarch too much power, random characters can also be brought to trial by a Rival, calling for him or her to be imprisoned and brought to justice as well. Including, of course, ministers, governors, and heirs.
The important thing is that the engine, not the player, would determine whether the character is innocent or guilty. The player's role is to bring someone to trial and apply the ruling. Which would mean that punishing an innocent would increase Tyranny as much as pardoning a friend declared guilty by the courts.
How do I plan to have it done
First step: Pre-Trial
Depending on conditions different for each crime, a monarch may select a character for trial by giving him the mark "Bring him for trial". Available for each possible crime if the conditions exist, it gives the character a condition "Accused". THEN, the Ruler can have it imprisoned via the usual means. Not imprisoning him right now might lead to the character fleeing, bribing his way out or even surrendering.
Imprisoning a character with this mark would trigger two possible "pre-trial" events, with the following options :
A trial would be justified
A1) Call for a fair trial, which decreases Tyranny because the reasons are deemed justified and the proofs sufficient. You can call for a fair trial (which gives around 50/50 chances of being declared innocent or guilty).
A2) Call for a mock trial, which increases significantly the possibility of guilty, but at the expense of Tyranny, loss of ruler popularity. Plus, the ruler gains the Trait "Unfair Judge" with added penalties AND a small chance of a campaign of mock trials spiraling out of control as more "accomplices" are named in this kangaroo trial.
A trial would be injustfied
B1) Call for his release (Immediate release, with a lesser Tyranny decrease). In other words, the proofs are not sufficient or he/she has powerful supporters and the ruler abides.
B2) Have him/her tried anyway, would allow the trial to happen anyway, but the Tyranny amount would be maintained with a small increase.
Second step: The Crimes
Under character, the ruler may bring in different charges against a given character as if he/she was granting a title, but instead it would be "Bring for trial: XYZ".
For simplicity's sake, only one charge could be brought against one character at a time.
Universal conditions for charges to be brought by the ruler would be:
- Over 16 years of age.
- Loyalty below 80. Loyal characters would be protected, obviously.
- Trial for theft
Conditions = Anyone but position holders, corruption over 10%, Ambition = "Become Rich", Traits: Corrupt or Selfish or Gluttonous or Rash
This character is suspected of stealing small amounts or goods to fuel his own greed or bankroll his wanton urges. He must be taught a lesson.
If guilty, choices would be :
- Pardon him
- Fine him/her 100 gold
- Branding of his hand
- Trial for libel
Conditions = Anyone with at least one Rival, popularity over 60%, Proeminence over 30%, Traits: Abrasive or Silver_tongued or Blunt or Proud or Vengeful or Deceitful or Reckless or Arrogant or Sarcastic or Stubborn or Orator
This character uses his public proeminence, his oratory skills, his popularity or hired accomplices to destroy wantonly the reputation of his target with outright lies and deceit for his own gains, threatening the social fabric. The victim demands justice to clean his reputation.
If guilty:
- Pardon him
- Public shaming (loss of proeminence)
- Fine up to 200 gold
- Branding of his tongue
- Trial for embezzlement
Conditions = Governors, Ministers, Leaders, corruption over 20%, Ambition = "Become Rich", Traits: Corrupt or Selfish or Gluttonous or Rash
This character issuspected of using his position to grossly pocket monies due to the state treasury. Taxes, tributes, inheritances, nothing escapes his greedy palms according to some reports. He must be stopped before the situation worsens!
If guilty, choices would be :
- Pardon him
- Sack him
- Fine 1000 gold
- Banishment
- Execution
- Trial for rape
Conditions = Any male over 16, Traits: Lustful or Assertive or Selfish or Deceitful or Arrogant or Ugly or Maniac or Fertile
This character knows no restrait in his lusts, forcing himself on slave girls, daughters, and even married women of good quality. He brings his house and the victims into disrepute, breaking homes and fathering bastards left and right. Who knows, your own daughter might be the next if not dealt with quickly!
If guilty, choices would be :
- Pardon him
- Reparation fine (in the victim's father, mother, or eldest brother's purse)
- Banishment
- Castration (Fertility decreased to zero and gain the Trait Maimed)
- Execution
- Trial for adultery
Conditions : Any married woman, proeminence over 10%, family prestige over 100, Traits: Lustful or Assertive or Selfish or Deceitful or Arrogant or Maniac or Fair or Fertile
This woman cuckolds her dutiful husband without restraint while he is gone serving the State. Rumors puts male slaves up to married men of good standing sleeping with her. People are talking in the streets, hoping that someone puts a hold on her dissolute ways... or they may be the next target of her lust.
(NB: Yes, I know, married men do cheat as well, but it didn't count back then. And men are covered by trials for rape).
If guilty, choices would be :
- Pardon her
- Public shaming
- Impose a divorce
- Banishment
- Execution
- Trial for assault
Conditions : Any over 16, At least one Rival, Ambition = "Death of a Rival", Traits: Abrasive, Vengeful, Reckless, Arrogant, Rash,
This character has lost face in public and sought his own vigilante justice against one of his rival by beating him to a bloody mess in a dark corner in front of witnesses. If you do not intervene, more blood will be spilled and even lives lost.
If guilty, choices would be :
- Pardon him
- Public shaming
- Public punishment
- Banishment
- Execution
- Trial for murder
(NB: I might pull that one off for now and keep it for later, perhaps to include actual murder events which lead to trial.)
Any over 16, At least one Rival, Ambition = "Death of a Rival", Traits: Arbitrary, Cruel, Vengeful, Deceitful, Arrogant, Jealous, Reckess, Rash
This character is suspected to have actually committed murder himself, or commissioned the death of someone via henchmen. The reasons are irrelevant: While no one of importance has been killed yet, justice must be served!
If guilty, choices would be :
- Pardon him
- Public punishment
- Banishment
- Execution
- Trial for conspiracy of treason
Any over 16, Position-Holder, Heir, Consort. Corruption over 40% OR Ambition = "Become A Ruler", "Become Governor", or "Married to a Ruler". Traits: Ambitious, Arbitrary, Cruel, Vengeful, Deceitful, Jealous.
This character could be a public enemy of the State if nothing is done! Let him or her go loose, and your own power and security is at stake! Strike now before someone eats the wrong mushroom at a banquet... and it might even be you.
If guilty, choices would be :
- Pardon him
- Strip him/her, but spare him
- Banishment
- Execution
- Family proscription (All males of any age and all female adults of the same family is either banished or dead! Not for the faint of heart, though, as it incurs massive Tyranny and a good chance of civil war.)
Third step: The Fair Trial
After a character has been marked and imprisonment, the trial event should come within 2 years top with a short MTTH. However, three events could happen between the imprisonment and the judgement:
A) The prisoner escapes.
- Big loss of popularity for your ruler, the character flees the realm, plus the character becomes a Rival of your monarch, your consort, your ministers and your heirs.
B) The prisoner naturally dies in prison
- Slight loss of popularity for your ruler, the character dies, and you regain a little infamy because it wasn't your fault.
C) The prisoner dies in prison from neglect and bad treatment
- Bigger loss of popularity for your ruler, the character dies, and you gain a little more infamy because it was your fault.
As soon as the character is imprisoned and the pre-trial events are played, the trial is said to have started. The main point of the minimod is that you cannot directly influate on the course of the trial in fair trials. This is all up to the tribunal to decide whether your accusations are sound or not. Fair trials are gambles: Winning or losing is out of your control.
In fair trials, chances of either verdict is 50/50. If I can find a way or showed a way, I'll allow that the more popular the character, the harder it is to return a verdict of guilty. That gives an incentive to attempt to smear the character's reputation via the GUI. However, even with a totally unpopular character, chances of being declared guilty shouldn't increase over 60%.
Last step: The Verdict
Two verdicts are possible : Not Guilty or Guilty.
Depending on the crime, both verdicts have the same choices of sentence listed above.
Doing anything else than freeing a character declared Not Guilty would give way, way more Tyranny than when declared Guilty. Example, executing a man declared Not Guilty would put your Tyranny close to two digits.
Under Guilty, Tyranny increase only with when the sentence is way harsher than the crime. Executing someone for rape would, for example, be seen as excessive, while sparing a man guilty of treason would incure a slight increase in popularity, but a bigger decrease of loyalty. After all, sparing traitors and murderers is showing weakness, not mercy.
More to come later... this first post will be edited slowly, but assuredly.
As discussed in Hardradi's Epigoni Mod, this is my first foray into event modding. So be patient with me, I am still learning how to create events.
What's the problem
As in vanilla Rome, taking judicial actions against a character (Imprison, Banish, Execute) gives Tyranny to the player. Tyranny takes a long while to decrease, which leads to a continuous loss of loyalty and revolt risk increases that can last for years if, of course, no more characters are imprisoned, banished, or executed. All of that for taking justice to a single character, right or wrong.
While I can see why PI did it that way, I find that situation inane, for two reasons.
A) Imprisoning a character is not a tyrannical act per say, and the current way it is programmed does not distinguish in anyway between innocent victims of reprisals and real, dangerous apprehended suspects of conspiracy or treason. Whether the character is an angel or a slime, the Tyranny increase is still the same.
B) Even in moderate regimes, Consuls and Monarchs had a lot of power in their hands. Imprisoning people suspected to be conspiring against a leader or the state was seen as a reasonable option to, well, having them murdered or killed by the mob. There was no such thing as "presumption of innocence" in Ancient Rome or Macedonia. It was to you or your friends to demonstrate that the accusations were untrue, if of course the trial was fair.
My little mod project aims to correct these and give players a way of getting opponents and bad apples using the due process of law while both decreasing the consequences in Tyranny.
What's the objective
The objective is to create an set of events allowing "moderate" regimes (republics and monarchies alike) to bring characters into trial, which might lead to judicial punishment.
The charges that could be brought in the first version are
- Trial for theft
- Trial for libel
- Trial for embezzlement
- Trial for adultery
- Trial for assault
- Trial for treason/conspiracy
The punishment that could be available are, depending of the charges brought up, some of them good, some of them plain bad, are:
- Fines
- Bodily harm (branding, blinded, etc)
- Property confiscation
- Banishment
- Execution
- Family proscription
For those who might think that would give the monarch too much power, random characters can also be brought to trial by a Rival, calling for him or her to be imprisoned and brought to justice as well. Including, of course, ministers, governors, and heirs.
The important thing is that the engine, not the player, would determine whether the character is innocent or guilty. The player's role is to bring someone to trial and apply the ruling. Which would mean that punishing an innocent would increase Tyranny as much as pardoning a friend declared guilty by the courts.
How do I plan to have it done
First step: Pre-Trial
Depending on conditions different for each crime, a monarch may select a character for trial by giving him the mark "Bring him for trial". Available for each possible crime if the conditions exist, it gives the character a condition "Accused". THEN, the Ruler can have it imprisoned via the usual means. Not imprisoning him right now might lead to the character fleeing, bribing his way out or even surrendering.
Imprisoning a character with this mark would trigger two possible "pre-trial" events, with the following options :
A trial would be justified
A1) Call for a fair trial, which decreases Tyranny because the reasons are deemed justified and the proofs sufficient. You can call for a fair trial (which gives around 50/50 chances of being declared innocent or guilty).
A2) Call for a mock trial, which increases significantly the possibility of guilty, but at the expense of Tyranny, loss of ruler popularity. Plus, the ruler gains the Trait "Unfair Judge" with added penalties AND a small chance of a campaign of mock trials spiraling out of control as more "accomplices" are named in this kangaroo trial.
A trial would be injustfied
B1) Call for his release (Immediate release, with a lesser Tyranny decrease). In other words, the proofs are not sufficient or he/she has powerful supporters and the ruler abides.
B2) Have him/her tried anyway, would allow the trial to happen anyway, but the Tyranny amount would be maintained with a small increase.
Second step: The Crimes
Under character, the ruler may bring in different charges against a given character as if he/she was granting a title, but instead it would be "Bring for trial: XYZ".
For simplicity's sake, only one charge could be brought against one character at a time.
Universal conditions for charges to be brought by the ruler would be:
- Over 16 years of age.
- Loyalty below 80. Loyal characters would be protected, obviously.
- Trial for theft
Conditions = Anyone but position holders, corruption over 10%, Ambition = "Become Rich", Traits: Corrupt or Selfish or Gluttonous or Rash
This character is suspected of stealing small amounts or goods to fuel his own greed or bankroll his wanton urges. He must be taught a lesson.
If guilty, choices would be :
- Pardon him
- Fine him/her 100 gold
- Branding of his hand
- Trial for libel
Conditions = Anyone with at least one Rival, popularity over 60%, Proeminence over 30%, Traits: Abrasive or Silver_tongued or Blunt or Proud or Vengeful or Deceitful or Reckless or Arrogant or Sarcastic or Stubborn or Orator
This character uses his public proeminence, his oratory skills, his popularity or hired accomplices to destroy wantonly the reputation of his target with outright lies and deceit for his own gains, threatening the social fabric. The victim demands justice to clean his reputation.
If guilty:
- Pardon him
- Public shaming (loss of proeminence)
- Fine up to 200 gold
- Branding of his tongue
- Trial for embezzlement
Conditions = Governors, Ministers, Leaders, corruption over 20%, Ambition = "Become Rich", Traits: Corrupt or Selfish or Gluttonous or Rash
This character issuspected of using his position to grossly pocket monies due to the state treasury. Taxes, tributes, inheritances, nothing escapes his greedy palms according to some reports. He must be stopped before the situation worsens!
If guilty, choices would be :
- Pardon him
- Sack him
- Fine 1000 gold
- Banishment
- Execution
- Trial for rape
Conditions = Any male over 16, Traits: Lustful or Assertive or Selfish or Deceitful or Arrogant or Ugly or Maniac or Fertile
This character knows no restrait in his lusts, forcing himself on slave girls, daughters, and even married women of good quality. He brings his house and the victims into disrepute, breaking homes and fathering bastards left and right. Who knows, your own daughter might be the next if not dealt with quickly!
If guilty, choices would be :
- Pardon him
- Reparation fine (in the victim's father, mother, or eldest brother's purse)
- Banishment
- Castration (Fertility decreased to zero and gain the Trait Maimed)
- Execution
- Trial for adultery
Conditions : Any married woman, proeminence over 10%, family prestige over 100, Traits: Lustful or Assertive or Selfish or Deceitful or Arrogant or Maniac or Fair or Fertile
This woman cuckolds her dutiful husband without restraint while he is gone serving the State. Rumors puts male slaves up to married men of good standing sleeping with her. People are talking in the streets, hoping that someone puts a hold on her dissolute ways... or they may be the next target of her lust.
(NB: Yes, I know, married men do cheat as well, but it didn't count back then. And men are covered by trials for rape).
If guilty, choices would be :
- Pardon her
- Public shaming
- Impose a divorce
- Banishment
- Execution
- Trial for assault
Conditions : Any over 16, At least one Rival, Ambition = "Death of a Rival", Traits: Abrasive, Vengeful, Reckless, Arrogant, Rash,
This character has lost face in public and sought his own vigilante justice against one of his rival by beating him to a bloody mess in a dark corner in front of witnesses. If you do not intervene, more blood will be spilled and even lives lost.
If guilty, choices would be :
- Pardon him
- Public shaming
- Public punishment
- Banishment
- Execution
- Trial for murder
(NB: I might pull that one off for now and keep it for later, perhaps to include actual murder events which lead to trial.)
Any over 16, At least one Rival, Ambition = "Death of a Rival", Traits: Arbitrary, Cruel, Vengeful, Deceitful, Arrogant, Jealous, Reckess, Rash
This character is suspected to have actually committed murder himself, or commissioned the death of someone via henchmen. The reasons are irrelevant: While no one of importance has been killed yet, justice must be served!
If guilty, choices would be :
- Pardon him
- Public punishment
- Banishment
- Execution
- Trial for conspiracy of treason
Any over 16, Position-Holder, Heir, Consort. Corruption over 40% OR Ambition = "Become A Ruler", "Become Governor", or "Married to a Ruler". Traits: Ambitious, Arbitrary, Cruel, Vengeful, Deceitful, Jealous.
This character could be a public enemy of the State if nothing is done! Let him or her go loose, and your own power and security is at stake! Strike now before someone eats the wrong mushroom at a banquet... and it might even be you.
If guilty, choices would be :
- Pardon him
- Strip him/her, but spare him
- Banishment
- Execution
- Family proscription (All males of any age and all female adults of the same family is either banished or dead! Not for the faint of heart, though, as it incurs massive Tyranny and a good chance of civil war.)
Third step: The Fair Trial
After a character has been marked and imprisonment, the trial event should come within 2 years top with a short MTTH. However, three events could happen between the imprisonment and the judgement:
A) The prisoner escapes.
- Big loss of popularity for your ruler, the character flees the realm, plus the character becomes a Rival of your monarch, your consort, your ministers and your heirs.
B) The prisoner naturally dies in prison
- Slight loss of popularity for your ruler, the character dies, and you regain a little infamy because it wasn't your fault.
C) The prisoner dies in prison from neglect and bad treatment
- Bigger loss of popularity for your ruler, the character dies, and you gain a little more infamy because it was your fault.
As soon as the character is imprisoned and the pre-trial events are played, the trial is said to have started. The main point of the minimod is that you cannot directly influate on the course of the trial in fair trials. This is all up to the tribunal to decide whether your accusations are sound or not. Fair trials are gambles: Winning or losing is out of your control.
In fair trials, chances of either verdict is 50/50. If I can find a way or showed a way, I'll allow that the more popular the character, the harder it is to return a verdict of guilty. That gives an incentive to attempt to smear the character's reputation via the GUI. However, even with a totally unpopular character, chances of being declared guilty shouldn't increase over 60%.
Last step: The Verdict
Two verdicts are possible : Not Guilty or Guilty.
Depending on the crime, both verdicts have the same choices of sentence listed above.
Doing anything else than freeing a character declared Not Guilty would give way, way more Tyranny than when declared Guilty. Example, executing a man declared Not Guilty would put your Tyranny close to two digits.
Under Guilty, Tyranny increase only with when the sentence is way harsher than the crime. Executing someone for rape would, for example, be seen as excessive, while sparing a man guilty of treason would incure a slight increase in popularity, but a bigger decrease of loyalty. After all, sparing traitors and murderers is showing weakness, not mercy.
More to come later... this first post will be edited slowly, but assuredly.
Last edited:
