Early announcement a mistake?

[LordStark]

Normally, developers announce a game that will release within a reasonable time frame. It doesnt seem like CK will release within a reasonable time frame. So why announce it in the first place?

p.s. I realize this thread will just be sent to the OT forum or closed. That is the only thing administrators for the CK forum do anymore.

 

[Alexandru H.]

Don't worry about that, I feel the same way, but I am willing to wait an extra year. Besides, it's not that the developers and I have such a special relation...the game is out of my decision-making policy...

 

[Snall]

I'd always rather they get it done right...but if I have to wait forever and it still sucks it sure turns me off..er..not that gaming is sexual or anything..erm...*ahem* Anyway much as I complain and such I just want to get a good product...If i have to wait. O well, although I would of course have the game as soon as possible.

 

[unmerged(12746)]

Originally posted by LordStark
Normally, developers announce a game that will release within a reasonable time frame. It doesnt seem like CK will release within a reasonable time frame. So why announce it in the first place?

p.s. I realize this thread will just be sent to the OT forum or closed. That is the only thing administrators for the CK forum do anymore.

1. " So why announce it in the first place" Marketing, word of mouth, advanced sales. As irritating as all that is for a gamer, these people still are in business and have to eat.

2. "That is the only thing administrators for the CK forum do anymore" I have seen Harvard participate in several conversations. Moving and closing strings isnt the only thing they do, sounds petty.

3. Question for you, whats reasonable?

Reasonable is subjective, although I think everyone who has followed the progression of CK is sick and tired of waiting around, it isnt a paradox deal. Snowball is getting the game to beta and then handing it over to Paradox, Paradox happens to give the game publicity on the thier boards.

I hope that the delays arent refelctions on Paradox, as I have read threads here they dont even have the game yet to beta. Sure there are reasons for development delays and I am sick and tired of waiting to, but i see the early announcement as a business move only. One that isnt controled by the guy sittign at his desk writing code or uploading pics. Those are the guys that come here and give you the updates, rarely do the VP's of Marketing or Finance stop by to tell you how things are going, but you bet your ass they are the ones pressing these guys for date.

Keep the faith it should be a great game, just dont expect much more then the fluff on the boards until after Victoria is released from Paradox.

 

[LordStark]

Re: Re: Early announcement a mistake?

Originally posted by Odin1970
1. " So why announce it in the first place" Marketing, word of mouth, advanced sales. As irritating as all that is for a gamer, these people still are in business and have to eat.

2. "That is the only thing administrators for the CK forum do anymore" I have seen Harvard participate in several conversations. Moving and closing strings isnt the only thing they do, sounds petty.

3. Question for you, whats reasonable?

Reasonable is subjective, although I think everyone who has followed the progression of CK is sick and tired of waiting around, it isnt a paradox deal. Snowball is getting the game to beta and then handing it over to Paradox, Paradox happens to give the game publicity on the thier boards.

I hope that the delays arent refelctions on Paradox, as I have read threads here they dont even have the game yet to beta. Sure there are reasons for development delays and I am sick and tired of waiting to, but i see the early announcement as a business move only. One that isnt controled by the guy sittign at his desk writing code or uploading pics. Those are the guys that come here and give you the updates, rarely do the VP's of Marketing or Finance stop by to tell you how things are going, but you bet your ass they are the ones pressing these guys for date.

Keep the faith it should be a great game, just dont expect much more then the fluff on the boards until after Victoria is released from Paradox.

R:1 This is my point... it is a bad marketing tactic to announce something and then display lack of professionalism by not following through on expectations and promises.

R:2 This was a statement based on personal observations. New posts on this board seem to be complaints. The administrators typically respond by locking the thread.

R:3 Reasonable is subjective but "everyone" being "sick and tired of waiting around" indicates the time frame has been unreasonable.

 

[Demetrios]

Originally posted by LordStark
p.s. I realize this thread will just be sent to the OT forum or closed. That is the only thing administrators for the CK forum do anymore.

Why would we need to do either? It is not excessively off-topic and hasn't degenerated into something that needs closing. Very few threads have been moved or closed in here lately...

 

[unmerged(12746)]

Re: Re: Re: Early announcement a mistake?

Originally posted by LordStark
R:1 This is my point... it is a bad marketing tactic to announce something and then display lack of professionalism by not following through on expectations and promises.

R:2 This was a statement based on personal observations. New posts on this board seem to be complaints. The administrators typically respond by locking the thread.

R:3 Reasonable is subjective but "everyone" being "sick and tired of waiting around" indicates the time frame has been unreasonable.

1. Subjective, depends on the intent of the initial announcement. Neither your or I know it. From a business stand point not the way I would go, but I have worked for a software company before, preorders mean capital, capital means continuation of business practice. The only person it hurts is the person who believes it and places thier faith in the good word of the company. Im not suggesting you shouldnt have , or suggesting that the intent was malicious, but from a business stand point I can see how it can be applied, some companies need cash, and need the build up. Missing promised dates dosent help, but missing a promised date keeps people talking about the product.

2. My bad there was no need for me to call you on that one, it was clear it was your opinion, your entitled to it.

3. Agreed 100% Im sick and tired of waiting around for it to. But the question of reasonable as applied to us the consumer may not be a consideration for the developer if a business need was filled by making the announcement early. Or thier idiots, and dont know what the hell they are doing, if thats the case then the game wont be worth a shit anyway.

So it comes down to faith, do you have any in CK? Personally I didnt until it was said by Johan on these boards a month ago that Paradox will be doing the beta testing. I dont know who made the announcement when, or why, I just know this is a game I definately want to play. We all know that its been delayed and delayed and it sucks, but will it effect your purchase? will you not buy and support the developers? Im not asking sarcastically or rehtroically Im asking sincerely because really thats what it all boils down to, if you dont buy the games then these companies go out of business, or do something else.

Read my signature, your consumption is your power, they know it, do you?

 

[Dinsdale]

I don't remember any announcement that CK would be released on a certain date. I thought perhaps SF had as Amazon is advertizing it being available on a specific date, but aside from the "few sushi dinners" comment, nothing has been mentioned about release.

I hope they take as long as they like. I thought before that perhaps the HOI way might be best; release get lots of feedback, fix, but that hasn't happened.

So, Sergei et al, IMHO, take as long as you like to get it right and shock us all with a release which is almost bug free

 

[Aetius]

Waiting might be a good sign of taking quality issues seriously. Fixing all of them before the beta is released might mean more time spent on finding those obscure bugs that might be missed otherwise...

 

[unmerged(10445)]

Originally posted by Dinsdale

So, Sergei et al, IMHO, take as long as you like to get it right and shock us all with a release which is almost bug free

You can wait it too long, as we WERE waiting their game "Vseslav-Charodey" for more than 5 years (actually, I think, nobody is waiting it, and I hope, this won`t happen with CK)

 

[unmerged(9622)]

Originally posted by Dmitri
You can wait it too long, as we WERE waiting their game "Vseslav-Charodey" for more than 5 years (actually, I think, nobody is waiting it, and I hope, this won`t happen with CK)

Hey, you are just mixing up 2 different, absolutely different games - this is one thing when we are speaking about leapingly developing world of RPG and quite another cake when we are talking of Global strategy like CK. - in case of Vseslav they had to re-do the game on the way.

Cheer up and don't be too pessimistic!

 

[unmerged(485)]

Re: Re: Early announcement a mistake?

Originally posted by Demetrios
Why would we need to do either? It is not excessively off-topic and hasn't degenerated into something that needs closing. Very few threads have been moved or closed in here lately...

That may be because there has been so little input and this forum was almost completely dead for about a month (except for complaints that it was dying).

 

[unmerged(485)]

Originally posted by Aetius
Waiting might be a good sign of taking quality issues seriously. Fixing all of them before the beta is released might mean more time spent on finding those obscure bugs that might be missed otherwise...

Hmmm, do you do advertising for MOO3 too?

 

[unmerged(8632)]

a) we announce the game on these forums whenever we feel like announcing it, i.e. if we think this will lead to interesting forum discussions that can contribute to design, etc. etc.

b) the game is announced in each territory whenever the local publisher seems it fit, commercially. it is up to our partners to start previews 1 year ahead (like we did in Russia) or 1 week ahead (like in Iceland ).

c) this is by far not a bank, and we are not selling the game online, so please consider that the operation of forums is a commerce-free undertaking that exists to spark a discussion and exchange opinions, not to take anybody's money, make promises, blah-blah

ergo, please withstand the temptation to shout and whine "where is it", "i want it", "it will be bad", "it was announced when moon was in pisces so it is bound to fail". this is not polite, and neither is it fit for people as intelligent and remarkable as most of this forum's audience is. if you want to discuss what a role-playing lgobal strategy set in medieval europe is, you are welcome and questions get answers, ideas get feedback, and through this process the game is made better. i can recall easily a rathe large number of things we changed or added because people here on the forum, people whom we respect and whose opinion matter for us greatly, have made suggestions. i hope it stays this way. amen.

 

[unmerged(8632)]

Originally posted by Dmitri
You can wait it too long, as we WERE waiting their game "Vseslav-Charodey" for more than 5 years (actually, I think, nobody is waiting it, and I hope, this won`t happen with CK)

Hey Dmitri,

So what does the delay with Fatherdale really mean? Is it better to put thegame on ice when you understand that the system you created is too complex to play through, or is it better to release the last beta you have, cash in on the success (believe me, the pre-orders were the largest in the history of Russian industry) and go on with another project?

In my opinion the decision that the team has made, and their bravery when it came to not releasing rather than killing their desire to make a perfect game, is a better part of success for their next project. Because techinical issues, people can learn, so they planned their next project more carefully, and with less scope and creative ambition. But honesty, and guts, and valour -- you either have it or you don't. Sooner or later, Fatherdale's team will make beautiful games that will rock. But the teams that compromised on quality and principles in order to pay their mortgage -- hardly.

 

[unmerged(9622)]

Hey sergei, nice avatar by the way! - do Paradoxes hide them in here somewhere? (searching for Fatherdale avatars... )

 

[unmerged(8632)]

nope, that's the little priviledge of being a producer

i have certain hopes to add char portraits to CK as well, though. not that particularly unique but rather as an indication of age/class/origin.

 

[unmerged(9622)]

Originally posted by sergei
nope, that's the little priviledge of being a producer

i have certain hopes to add char portraits to CK as well, though. not that particularly unique but rather as an indication of age/class/origin.

Sweet!

 

[unmerged(8913)]

Originally posted by sergei
nope, that's the little priviledge of being a producer

i have certain hopes to add char portraits to CK as well, though. not that particularly unique but rather as an indication of age/class/origin.

Sounds like a lot of work. I definitely like the idea though, I think it would add a bit of a more "personal" aspect to the game.

 

[unmerged(485)]

Originally posted by sergei
nope, that's the little priviledge of being a producer

i have certain hopes to add char portraits to CK as well, though. not that particularly unique but rather as an indication of age/class/origin.

If you have a spot for pictures in the game which is moddable I am sure that hundreds of pics will show up on the forum which folks will be able to download and install in their game. Even if you (Snowball) only have three or four pics as long as you make the system moddable we will enjoy making our own portraits (o.k. maybe all of us won't enjoy making them - we will be the ones downloading them from MKJ's site etc.)